[IG] 12 - Only members of official contract factions...

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[IG] 12 - Only members of official contract factions...

Post by Dec » Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:03 pm

Use this thread to post any sensible questions, comments, suggestions or ideas about this rule. We will endeavour to clarify anything which you may be uncertain about.


12. Only members of official contract factions can do contract kills.
    Only members of the official hitmen faction can be contracted to do contract kills. This is to stop random civilians advertising themselves as "hitmen" in order to randomly kill others for payment.
    Punishment:
    • Admin jail
    • If you wish to do something like this, you are required to have permission from the Head Of Factions
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Re: [IG] 12 - Only members of official contract factions...

Post by King » Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:08 pm

This rule is something which I've felt it needs to have some small amendments made to it. In my opinion, it's unfair that only official hitmen faction can take 'contracted kills' since it is a barrier of roleplay for Mafia's around the server - official and unofficial. I remember when gang members would come and offer me X amount of money to have an individiual assassinated, but the roleplay couldn't go through due to this rule.

I understand that it is also prevents DieCo from having hits and performing them (I didn't even know they were still around tbh) but I just feel it's a bit unfair for mafias who cannot take contracted hits because of this rule.

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Re: [IG] 12 - Only members of official contract factions...

Post by Voronov » Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:47 pm

This rule is outdated and should be abolished in its entirety. Even with the recent revision to the hitman system, the premise of any regular, everyday player being able to contact an assassin via phone call is stupid. What's the lure in preventing realistic roleplay in the place of a faction that masquerades as a monetary agency? What if I legitimately want to transfer my money and end up meeting an assassin? Remove the limitations on murder-for-hire. It won't encourage deathmatching. In many cases, players simply sidestep this rule and do it anyway, myself included. Where's the logic in having LivePay goons able to kill someone for money and an unofficial Sureno being unable to? What stops this Sureno? OOC limitations.

Murder-for-hire is a lucrative earner for criminal groups both in real life and on the server in the past. I myself have killed for money, paid to have someone killed and have been murdered by a paid assassin. Not one of these transactions involved a single member of an official faction. Sure, you may see an influx of moronic "pest control" companies but those players are the same ones undercutting the drug market and generally fucking with the server's balance. They will learn from their errors, just give them the tools to do so. There's no benefit in babying them.

In closing, murder-for-hire rings happen. Check out the LA Times website. A group of Armenian/Eurasian criminals orchesterated a Glendale-based murder-for-hire and credit card fraud ring from a pickle factory. Gang members murder targets to augment their street cred and in exchange for drugs and money. Mobsters hire people to kill to avoid police scrutiny. Not only will removing the red tape around murder-for-hire improve upon interaction between the legal and illegal sides of the server, it will add to the realism.
Last edited by Voronov on Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: [IG] 12 - Only members of official contract factions...

Post by Alonzo. » Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:05 pm

I agree that this rule should be changed. Sure don't make ads to kill someone but if someone knows someone else IC that would take money for a hit, I don't see how is that a problem. If I want someone dead and I know some people or someone who can do it, why can't I pay him to do it?

Maybe you want the victim dead in a certain way and want to be notified when the hit was done. With DieCo that is not possible ...or is it? If that is possible then I apologize.

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Re: [IG] 12 - Only members of official contract factions...

Post by Big Macher Hollywood » Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:34 pm

Unfortunately, LS-RP has neglected realistic murder-for-hire roleplay for years on end, not allowing creative roleplayers to partake in murder-for-hire networking that goes on even in the depth of the pit, the very bottom of the real life underworld. It doesn't take a profesionally skilled hitman to set up a ring. In most cases you're dealing with bottom feeders, knockaround guys at best eking out a living doing something they'd no doubt know all about.

Tampering with the in-character process of players setting up a murder-for-hire ring and portraying it as realistically as can be does more harm than good, and creates a script-dependant environment. My two cents. Don't hate.

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Re: [IG] 12 - Only members of official contract factions...

Post by Indefinite Affiliation » Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:50 pm

I can't see why contract killing is restricted to the hitmen faction in the first place, there's no reason for official faction members not being able to carry them out.
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Re: [IG] 12 - Only members of official contract factions...

Post by Ministry » Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:58 pm

If the staff team want limitations on murder for hire, then limit it to official faction members only, not just one faction.
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Re: [IG] 12 - Only members of official contract factions...

Post by Martin_Busato » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:18 am

Voronov hit the nail on the head on this one but I'll chip in my two cents anyway.

The majority of the server will agree with me when I say DieCo is a horrible excuse for a faction on LSRP and to think such an enjoyable facet of OC role-play like murder-for-hire is limited solely to this one faction is both unfair, and, quite frankly, stupid.

To elaborate, the server as a whole has taken massive steps in improving the general quality of role-play over the course of the past few years, and keeping this rule intact is in no way, shape, or form sponsoring realism. In my opinion, there are far too many limitations when it comes to OC role-play on this server to begin with, and one simple way of bringing more opportunities to the table is to abolish this rule. There is no reason why we should tailor the rules to avoid something minor the bad role-players may partake in. Instead, those who fail to role-play murder-for hire properly can be dealt with accordingly and the others will be able to participate in some realistic and enjoyable role-play.

A rule like this has no place on a server that houses more players dedicated to realism than any other server on SAMP.

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Re: [IG] 12 - Only members of official contract factions...

Post by Irving » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:43 am

Ministry wrote:If the staff team want limitations on murder for hire, then limit it to official faction members only, not just one faction.

This.

If murder-for-hire can't be trusted well enough to be done by regular players then I think at least official faction members should be granted to do so. If they're trustworthy enough to be labeled official then they should be trustworthy enough to operate murder-for-hire ring with proper role-play.

I mean, I'm not even sure DieCo is still around, I believe vast amount of the players do feel the same way. Some of the new players probably don't even know what DieCo is. I guess it's proved a point that the faction has succeeded to operate underground and become untraceable (if they really do still lurk around), but nowadays this kind of business is not really the scarcity type anymore as someone already stated and proved. It's pretty much senseless this attempt to cover up the secrecy.

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Re: [IG] 12 - Only members of official contract factions...

Post by Brandon » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:32 pm

Who even bothers to call DieCo anymore? It's too 2008.

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Re: [IG] 12 - Only members of official contract factions...

Post by Kipps » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:10 am

IMO, it's a silly rule.

DieCo have never adequately met the desires for the level of roleplay people expect when they place contracts. Official factions should be allowed to carry out hits. Unofficial factions should be able to carry out hits with the approval of the HoF.

Most do anyway, but that's just because it's so natural for them to.

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Re: [IG] 12 - Only members of official contract factions...

Post by Ferdinand » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:48 am

In my opinion, part of the reason why murder for hire has been limited to DieCo (LivePay) is to prevent the whole chain between the "contractor", hitman and the victim.
The victim gets killed by what seems to be a random person so they're likely to see it as deathmatch, while in fact the hitman has money and a second-hand reason coming from the person ordering the hit. Given that DieCo members are few and trusted, they are granted with ability to choose between orders which have a good roleplay background and reasoning from "this man called me an asshole, kill him" orders.
Given the current practice of PMing the killer 'why' the kill's been done is commonly used (without having to post a forum report etc.), I guess not much would change, as long as new hitmen (those not employed by DieCo) would be willing to comply and share information after the hit's been done - in order to confirm that it was in fact not straight-out deathmatch.

Another issue is that it's fairly complex to determine which certain situation the player is being PKed from if a kill is being done by a third, unaffiliated party (this largely applies to players having more than one person after them). Kevin wants to kill Peter. Peter stays in hiding while ordering a hit on Kevin. The hit is done. How would Kevin know to steer clear of Peter as it would be revenge killing, if he is not certain that Peter had ordered the hit? This is an issue in the old as much as it would be an issue in the new system with unlimited murder for hire roleplay.

Perhaps it also has something to do with the fact that this type of roleplay is interesting to many. Much like being corrupt in PD, being a hitman is appealing to a large amount of players, so altering this rule might result in an unrealistic number of hitmen. OOC rules regarding corruption in PD and SD are there solely to force a sort of realism and to prevent every single cop from being dirty or straight out corrupt, and it works.

The majority of posts in this thread are calling for altering the rule, and I have to concur. It'd be interesting to see it happen; perhaps at least a trial period could be given to see the consequences of allowing contract kills without involving DieCo. In my opinion pros would outweigh the cons.

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Re: [IG] 12 - Only members of official contract factions...

Post by IntrozeN » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:16 pm

Ferdinand wrote:In my opinion, part of the reason why murder for hire has been limited to DieCo (LivePay) is to prevent the whole chain between the "contractor", hitman and the victim.
The victim gets killed by what seems to be a random person so they're likely to see it as deathmatch, while in fact the hitman has money and a second-hand reason coming from the person ordering the hit. Given that DieCo members are few and trusted, they are granted with ability to choose between orders which have a good roleplay background and reasoning from "this man called me an asshole, kill him" orders.
Given the current practice of PMing the killer 'why' the kill's been done is commonly used (without having to post a forum report etc.), I guess not much would change, as long as new hitmen (those not employed by DieCo) would be willing to comply and share information after the hit's been done - in order to confirm that it was in fact not straight-out deathmatch.

Another issue is that it's fairly complex to determine which certain situation the player is being PKed from if a kill is being done by a third, unaffiliated party (this largely applies to players having more than one person after them). Kevin wants to kill Peter. Peter stays in hiding while ordering a hit on Kevin. The hit is done. How would Kevin know to steer clear of Peter as it would be revenge killing, if he is not certain that Peter had ordered the hit? This is an issue in the old as much as it would be an issue in the new system with unlimited murder for hire roleplay.

Perhaps it also has something to do with the fact that this type of roleplay is interesting to many. Much like being corrupt in PD, being a hitman is appealing to a large amount of players, so altering this rule might result in an unrealistic number of hitmen. OOC rules regarding corruption in PD and SD are there solely to force a sort of realism and to prevent every single cop from being dirty or straight out corrupt, and it works.

The majority of posts in this thread are calling for altering the rule, and I have to concur. It'd be interesting to see it happen; perhaps at least a trial period could be given to see the consequences of allowing contract kills without involving DieCo. In my opinion pros would outweigh the cons.


+1.

The biggest reason in why this would be a problem is the rage in people when they get killed by a complete random player.
However, I think some people are actually capable of roleplaying hitmen while being civilians.

I think this rule should be changed, stating that it is not allowed to make advertisements about being a hitman, cleaning company and so on.
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Re: [IG] 12 - Only members of official contract factions...

Post by Ministry » Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:08 pm

Immaturity from members of the community who cannot hack loosing is the fundamental reason this rule is in place.
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Re: [IG] 12 - Only members of official contract factions...

Post by Moondog » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:24 pm

I see this rule with no sense, I mean what would be the problem if I hire a wannabe gangster to kill someone, I don't pay him 25k like you do in real life to a professioanl skilled hitman, you give him 1000 dollars or something like this-..Or I could do it, I can roleplay as a solo Hitman, what would be the problem?The roleplay, yes, maybe many people from this community thinks that not everyone is able to roleplay as a hitman.But comeone, let's be honest, it's my decision to do it, not owning a sniper rifle or m4, yea those weapons can be restricted from players(my opinion).And you can roleplay as a hitman for the Mob, why not to do it, because the rule says it, God, what would be the problem, i'll put this question everytime, "What's the problem in roleplaying as a hitman?".Not roleplaying being in a big Corporation where Hitmans rule the world, no, something small and unique.I would say that this rule should be changed, the decision is not in my hands, indeed, just my opinion, but let's hope that by seeing those comments that are against this rule you might change it.Or make something different, not Elimination Bugs or something like that, maybe, let's see-...a religious thing, I have a lot of ideeas about the roleplay of a hitman, I mean not just a hitman, there is an infinit possibilites of roleplay, you just need to find them with your imagination and that imagination is inside your brain.
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