Q&A: In-game Rules

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Re: Q&A: In-game Rules

Post by knppel » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:05 am

Last sidenote in regards of ooc faction regulations, they typically are not made up out of the blue to bully outsiders, but develop over time following the demand of the faction.
Server rules ensure everyone in general can play together, however if a player is adapting to the server rules, but still purposely joining my faction again and again despite being dismissed ic for misconduct various times before, but simply trying to avoid ic consequences with a namechange, I am thankfully free to take measures against it.

Even more this counts for the PD- imagine if they were forced to let every new character try again and again after a namechange despite already knowing the guy will on the first opportunity abuse his powers ic, fail to meet rp standards, blatantly break rules or whatever.
Just my opinion but if they did not regulate and restrict applications so heavily, we would be complaining about idiotic cops way more :wink:

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Re: Q&A: In-game Rules

Post by Angles » Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:57 am

ATTENTION, do not reply to this if you do not grasp metaphors that well.
Airwolf wrote:They are not LS:RP in-game rules but specific faction rules which are allowed by faction management.
Why are factions allowed to infringe on rules everyone else has to follow?
Airwolf wrote:If you can't follow an faction their rules, they usually don't want you there. They don't have to take you either if you're not willing to adhere to faction rules.
Why have faction management put in a set of regulations that let's factions break server rules? Just because you don't like a person out of character, that doesn't count for squat in the in character world, as they're a de facto different person in that world. I believe there is a statement in the rule book that says "roleplay at all times", "do not mix out of character information and in character information" disallowing people to join because of out of character purposes de facto infringes roleplay at all times and do not mix out of character information and in character actions as you're limiting someone's roleplay because on out of character reasons. All applications should be judged on in character merit, otherwise that's infringing IG 2. Don't put in regulations if you're exempting people from rule breaking punishment.
knppel wrote:
Even more this counts for the PD- imagine if they were forced to let every new character try again and again after a namechange despite already knowing the guy will on the first opportunity abuse his powers ic, fail to meet rp standards, blatantly break rules or whatever.
There's an ajail system in place for that reason, if a player rule breaks.
knppel wrote:Just my opinion but if they did not regulate and restrict applications so heavily, we would be complaining about idiotic cops way more :wink:
That can't be proven.
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Re: Q&A: In-game Rules

Post by knppel » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:03 pm

Why are factions allowed to infringe on rules everyone else has to follow?
Because factions are also obliged to follow more rules than the average single player. On the one hand more freedom, on the other hand more responibility (specially again in the case of such massive official factions as the PD).
There's an ajail system in place for that reason, if a player rule breaks.
Buying a namechange and applying for the same faction that just denied/booted you again does not conflict with any server rules, unless I am extremely picky over common courtesy and intend to make a stalking victim out of myself all the time.
Hence why, this point is not valid a bit- I can't expect people to get ajailed for simply idioty, however I still need a measure against such problems if they occur (and so does the PD obviously).

Why does this typically only occur in legal factions? Simply because when "fired" from an illegal faction you typically get killed by them, thus losing knowledge of the existance of the existent group ic (elsewise it would be metagaming).
We can't really claim new characters would not know the Police and thus could be restricted from wanting to join there.

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Re: Q&A: In-game Rules

Post by Angles » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:08 pm

knppel wrote:
Why are factions allowed to infringe on rules everyone else has to follow?
Because factions are also obliged to follow more rules than the average single player. On the one hand more freedom, on the other hand more responibility (specially again in the case of such massive official factions as the PD).
So let me get this straight, by your logic to my reply - factions are obliged to follow more rules, so they're allowed to break more? How about they don't break any for starters?
knppel wrote:Buying a namechange and applying for the same faction that just denied/booted you again does not conflict with any server rules,
Thank you for pointing that out, as our whole discussion's contention has been on rule infringement.
knppel wrote:I can't expect people to get ajailed for simply idioty
Maybe because they aren't infringing the rule book? :?
knppel wrote:however I still need a measure against such problems if they occur (and so does the PD obviously).
You don't need anything, wants and needs are two different things.
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Kings and queens rule the land
There's more and more lines drawn in the sand
Pawns are crooks, Castles are rooks
It's too bad the good books
Written for the sub-classes to introduce morality
Had nothing to do with reality
But then again, who would have ever read them?
We read the par-Quran for lunch
Eat old testaments for a snack
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Re: Q&A: In-game Rules

Post by knppel » Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:31 pm

Thank you for pointing that out, as our whole discussion's contention has been on rule infringement.
I'm just trying to explain you the fact that an ooc faction ban is not metagaming since it has no negative consequenzes for the character. It differs very clearly between ooc and ic, on the other hand.
You keep insisting. We can go back and forth like this for ages but it won't change the fact we are better off with not everyone having access to warehouses and police cruisers, to just give two examples, hence why factions always and ever will regulate access to their facilities ooc as well and also kick/deny players that are incapable of rp even if their character might not have yet made any crucial mistake to deny him ic (typically due to being freshly namechanged).

It's all nice and well how you argue but for some factions, not breaking rules alone is not enough of a standard, I hope this answers your questions- and i might again highlight the PD as example here- membership numbers >200, permanent complaints about "corrupt" cops despite heavy regulations (and ironically, people then also calling the regulations that prevent corruption corrupt)- imagine if they let anyone join just because he namechanged.

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Re: Q&A: In-game Rules

Post by Angles » Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:44 pm

knppel wrote:I'm just trying to explain you the fact that an ooc faction ban is not metagaming since it has no negative consequenzes for the character.
Yes it does, for one that character can't join the police department. You act as if that's a positive thing for the character.
knppel wrote:You keep insisting. We can go back and forth like this for ages but it won't change the fact we are better off with not everyone having access to warehouses and police cruisers
Woah woah, that sentence sounds like it has strawman and no true scotsman both in it. Two logical fallacies in the same sentence?
knppel wrote: hence why factions always and ever will regulate access to their facilities ooc
I'll go on your earlier example of gun warehouses. That's a matter of in character trust (should be, otherwise it's metagaming). So it's in character.


knppel wrote:It's all nice and well how you argue but for some factions, not breaking rules alone is not enough of a standard, I hope this answers your questions-
It doesn't.
knppel wrote:and i might again highlight the PD as example here- membership numbers >200, permanent complaints about "corrupt" cops despite heavy regulations
Great, so the regulations don't work, even with the infringement of rules. Great little system there for the cost of rule infringement.
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Kings and queens rule the land
There's more and more lines drawn in the sand
Pawns are crooks, Castles are rooks
It's too bad the good books
Written for the sub-classes to introduce morality
Had nothing to do with reality
But then again, who would have ever read them?
We read the par-Quran for lunch
Eat old testaments for a snack
And a little Lulla-bible before bed

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Re: Q&A: In-game Rules

Post by knppel » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:12 pm

Alright let's rip this apart then I am done posting here, at least for now regarding the point how faction regulations are so brutally limiting our all gameplay experience (Yeah, sarcasm there).
Yes it does, for one that character can't join the police department. You act as if that's a positive thing for the character.
You act as if it was a negative thing for the character. Unless you created a guy with no plan in life except to become a cop, it's not gonna affect you ic more than any other denied job application. Ever wrote any irl? I know people who wrote a few 100 and didnt even get an answer back.
PD at least replies, that's rather nice imo. Other factions in LS often kill you if you fail your job interview (to prevent you from annoying them again).
PD doesn't do that (unless you pull on them first). Say what you want but I fail how to see a denied job application is a terribly negative consequence for a character - I have seen it being a terrible problem for a player who thought he was perfectly fit for a certain role, however.
I'll go on your earlier example of gun warehouses. That's a matter of in character trust (should be, otherwise it's metagaming). So it's in character.
Might count for your faction, can't speak for that as I lack the insight, however as a matter of fact Satoshi Nakamoto had access to four warehouses in the past year and you cannot claim anyone ever trusted him much ic, so sadly this point is not fully valid.
No matter what you play, you will always encounter people who are not in for the rp but only try to use your ig ressources for whatever their personal ooc agenda might be and covering it under whatever roleplay they might be doing.

If a faction has access to guns, or in the PD case to not only guns, but cruisers, ts, vests and more, it also has a certain responsibility these additional tools do not get abused to piss off other players. And given the fact not every single one of us is the perfectly educated roleplayer, sometimes you need to pull the rope ooc and deny someone despite the fact he put a lot of effort into making it look as if his character was fit for anything.

Great, so the regulations don't work, even with the infringement of rules. Great little system there for the cost of rule infringement.
I prefer it a thousand times over a system where people that were simply caught abusing faction ressources would be allowed to just do the same shit for 2 dollar irl investment , aka a name change.
I could swing the pay-2-win bat now but then again in my opinion it's not like you lost anything ic if a pathetic job application gets denied.
The usual reason this causes so much salt is not that the character gets denied a job ic, but that it's the big bad PD faction that denies him (or the crappy little FAUX-we have such idiots too, in smaller numbers, as mentioned above), point proven, thanks a lot, and so much for the metagaming, we can start working on that part once every last one here stopped mixing ic and ooc feelings

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Re: Q&A: In-game Rules

Post by Angles » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:23 pm

knppel wrote: then I am done posting here
I'll hold you to that.

knppel wrote:You act as if it was a negative thing for the character.
Because it is? When's having your options limited a good thing?
knppel wrote: Unless you created a guy with no plan in life except to become a cop, it's not gonna affect you ic more than any other denied job application.
You never pointed out values in your original argument.
knppel wrote:Ever wrote any irl? I know people who wrote a few 100 and didnt even get an answer back.
Yes, and it's certainly not positive knowing you haven't got the job.

knppel wrote:PD at least replies, that's rather nice imo.
With (())?
knppel wrote:Other factions in LS often kill you if you fail your job interview (to prevent you from annoying them again).
There's a statement somewhere in the rule book that says don't break rules just because others have.

knppel wrote:PD doesn't do that (unless you pull on them first). Say what you want but I fail how to see a denied job application is a terribly negative consequence for a character
Now now, I never said "terribly negative", you're continuing to strawman me, which I don't respect.

knppel wrote: however as a matter of fact Satoshi Nakamoto had access to four warehouses in the past year and you cannot claim anyone ever trusted him much ic, so sadly this point is not fully valid.
Then he should be punished for metagame, like I said earlier, don't break rules just because others have.
knppel wrote:No matter what you play, you will always encounter people who are not in for the rp but only try to use your ig ressources for whatever their personal ooc agenda might be and covering it under whatever roleplay they might be doing.
don't break rules just because others have

knppel wrote:If a faction has access to guns, or in the PD case to not only guns, but cruisers, ts, vests and more, it also has a certain responsibility these additional tools do not get abused to piss off other players.
That should be taken through in character enforcement.
knppel wrote:And given the fact not every single one of us is the perfectly educated roleplayer, sometimes you need to pull the rope ooc and deny someone despite the fact he put a lot of effort into making it look as if his character was fit for anything.
That's infringing the rule of metagaming desu.

knppel wrote: I prefer it a thousand times over a system where people that were simply caught abusing faction ressources would be allowed to just do the same shit for 2 dollar irl investment , aka a name change.
Thanks for your personal opinion over accuracy.

knppel wrote: it's not like you lost anything ic if a pathetic job application gets denied.
You still don't have a job, but that whole argument of yours is pulling away from our contention of rule infringement and metagaming and I fell right into the bait.

knppel wrote: we can start working on that part once every last one here stopped mixing ic and ooc feelings
Don't write rules with definitions but then exempt certain situations and people from it.
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Kings and queens rule the land
There's more and more lines drawn in the sand
Pawns are crooks, Castles are rooks
It's too bad the good books
Written for the sub-classes to introduce morality
Had nothing to do with reality
But then again, who would have ever read them?
We read the par-Quran for lunch
Eat old testaments for a snack
And a little Lulla-bible before bed

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Re: Q&A: In-game Rules

Post by Awkx » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:15 pm

So if I've read all this right:
  • There is no actual server rule against ICly paying someone to write all of the IC parts of my LSPD applications (PBA, PQE, PAT, PAE). I must write the OOC parts myself though.
  • No admin punishment will occur if it is ever discovered
  • The LSPD cannot actually find out if I do this or not realistically, so I should be good to do this and get away with it
What exactly is the problem then? Or even the point in such rules if the LSPD doesn't really have any way of enforcing it tbh.
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Re: Q&A: In-game Rules

Post by Zupps » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:54 pm

Awkx wrote:So if I've read all this right:
  • There is no actual server rule against ICly paying someone to write all of the IC parts of my LSPD applications (PBA, PQE, PAT, PAE). I must write the OOC parts myself though.
  • No admin punishment will occur if it is ever discovered
  • The LSPD cannot actually find out if I do this or not realistically, so I should be good to do this and get away with it
What exactly is the problem then? Or even the point in such rules if the LSPD doesn't really have any way of enforcing it tbh.
I honestly don't know what THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU but all of your questions are fucking dumb. We answered them. If you took time and looked around the server and forums you would know you have to write it yourself, and if caught you get banned from that faction if someone finds out it was written. Taking note of that I'm sure no one would do it for free so it's pretty obvious to find out who did it especially with logs and such and since you can't copy and paste. If you think before you would even type you would know there have been numerous questions and threads about "unwritten rules" and this os one of them./ Not only is common sense you know that part that you lack of but it's also annoying seeing questions that you ask like about selling accounts. Also admin punishment can occur but it's up to the admin. They do have a rule of enforcing it, called read the application. Also they can kick you of they find out you didn't write it. No stop asking questions that are common sense.

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Re: Q&A: In-game Rules

Post by Awkx » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:50 pm

Zupps wrote:
Awkx wrote:So if I've read all this right:
  • There is no actual server rule against ICly paying someone to write all of the IC parts of my LSPD applications (PBA, PQE, PAT, PAE). I must write the OOC parts myself though.
  • No admin punishment will occur if it is ever discovered
  • The LSPD cannot actually find out if I do this or not realistically, so I should be good to do this and get away with it
What exactly is the problem then? Or even the point in such rules if the LSPD doesn't really have any way of enforcing it tbh.
I honestly don't know what THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU but all of your questions are fucking dumb. We answered them. If you took time and looked around the server and forums you would know you have to write it yourself, and if caught you get banned from that faction if someone finds out it was written. Taking note of that I'm sure no one would do it for free so it's pretty obvious to find out who did it especially with logs and such and since you can't copy and paste. If you think before you would even type you would know there have been numerous questions and threads about "unwritten rules" and this os one of them./ Not only is common sense you know that part that you lack of but it's also annoying seeing questions that you ask like about selling accounts. Also admin punishment can occur but it's up to the admin. They do have a rule of enforcing it, called read the application. Also they can kick you of they find out you didn't write it. No stop asking questions that are common sense.
Reported.

And I am just asking how it works, I assume a faction rule is more like a civil ruling would be in a real life court rather than a criminal one.
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Re: Q&A: In-game Rules

Post by Zupps » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:53 pm

Awkx wrote:
Zupps wrote:
Awkx wrote:So if I've read all this right:
  • There is no actual server rule against ICly paying someone to write all of the IC parts of my LSPD applications (PBA, PQE, PAT, PAE). I must write the OOC parts myself though.
  • No admin punishment will occur if it is ever discovered
  • The LSPD cannot actually find out if I do this or not realistically, so I should be good to do this and get away with it
What exactly is the problem then? Or even the point in such rules if the LSPD doesn't really have any way of enforcing it tbh.
I honestly don't know what THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU but all of your questions are fucking dumb. We answered them. If you took time and looked around the server and forums you would know you have to write it yourself, and if caught you get banned from that faction if someone finds out it was written. Taking note of that I'm sure no one would do it for free so it's pretty obvious to find out who did it especially with logs and such and since you can't copy and paste. If you think before you would even type you would know there have been numerous questions and threads about "unwritten rules" and this os one of them./ Not only is common sense you know that part that you lack of but it's also annoying seeing questions that you ask like about selling accounts. Also admin punishment can occur but it's up to the admin. They do have a rule of enforcing it, called read the application. Also they can kick you of they find out you didn't write it. No stop asking questions that are common sense.
Reported.

And I am just asking how it works, I assume a faction rule is more like a civil ruling would be in a real life court rather than a criminal one.
Report me all you want but you ask the dumbest of the dumbest questions in the world.

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Re: Q&A: In-game Rules

Post by Awkx » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:05 pm

Reported again.

I don't see what's dumb when in actual fact you can't point out a single thing wrong with any of the points I made.
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Re: Q&A: In-game Rules

Post by Paperclip » Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:05 am

Is it fair that Law Enforcement and LSFD and DoC factions can simply deny people just because they have a previous ban/a-jails? Other factions don't have that so it doesn't seem fair that I can't roleplay as a Police Officer or a Correctional Officer just because I have had a ban or a serious a-jail in the past? Like, past is the past and it's not the future? I just don't like this concept and I think it's metagaming in a way? Anyone else agrees on this?

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Re: Q&A: In-game Rules

Post by Benavides » Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:12 am

Paperclip wrote:Is it fair that Law Enforcement and LSFD and DoC factions can simply deny people just because they have a previous ban/a-jails? Other factions don't have that so it doesn't seem fair that I can't roleplay as a Police Officer or a Correctional Officer just because I have had a ban or a serious a-jail in the past? Like, past is the past and it's not the future? I just don't like this concept and I think it's metagaming in a way? Anyone else agrees on this?
Hello there.

It's not metagaming at all due to the fact that factions have the right to keep someone out of their faction out of character aswell. Law enforcement factions are factions just like every other one on the server, it's their choice if they are going let you in their faction or not. Even though an admin-jail is in the past, they still look at it, mostly the recent ones.
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