Peace Officer misconduct (Report PD/SD)

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Re: Peace Officer misconduct (Report PD/SD)

Post by Nathan » Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:40 am

smurph wrote:
Kaikoa wrote:. Hell, getting killed is better than getting a 5 hour sentence.


Sad, but true. Sometimes I just feel like I have been cheated by Robo_Cop and there is nothing I can do about it :(


That's the one word I despise of, 'Robo_Cop'. There is loads of stuff you can do about it, it's just you can't be arsed and just waste your time feeling sorry for yourself about what the 'Robo_Cop' has done to you. I'm sure administrators, well I know admins will deal with cops that are breaking the rules. I sometimes feel that going to IA can be better than going to admins, because most of the time they either lose out on 2-3 days of role-playing an on duty officer due to a suspension or they lose out on a faction position that they value the most on LS:RP. That point is only for the things they've done OOC'ly. IC'ly is all IA anyway.

Like the topic though krisk.

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Re: Peace Officer misconduct (Report PD/SD)

Post by iFlyKid » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:07 am

Ferdinand wrote:The fact that most cops like to RP that their career made them rich when they're still under Sergeant rank is a matter for another debate. This thread will however make them more aware and careful while doing their duty.


This has nothing to do to scare police officers or any of the members in the PD or SD. This is simply for players to be aware and rather informed that Internal Affairs does exist and justice can pass along both the law enforcement side as well as civilians. So this is not a scare tactic Krisk is trying to pull off if that's what's flying through your mind.
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Re: Peace Officer misconduct (Report PD/SD)

Post by yaga » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:11 am

Nathan wrote:
smurph wrote:
Kaikoa wrote:. Hell, getting killed is better than getting a 5 hour sentence.


Sad, but true. Sometimes I just feel like I have been cheated by Robo_Cop and there is nothing I can do about it :(


That's the one word I despise of, 'Robo_Cop'. There is loads of stuff you can do about it, it's just you can't be arsed and just waste your time feeling sorry for yourself about what the 'Robo_Cop' has done to you. I'm sure administrators, well I know admins will deal with cops that are breaking the rules. I sometimes feel that going to IA can be better than going to admins, because most of the time they either lose out on 2-3 days of role-playing an on duty officer due to a suspension or they lose out on a faction position that they value the most on LS:RP. That point is only for the things they've done OOC'ly. IC'ly is all IA anyway.

Like the topic though krisk.


Its a lot harder to prove then just a simple report This_Cop has harrased me, a simple SS of a cop following you isnt going to do it and they will simply justify their actions (the majority) of the time that its in character. In some instances, yes it is in character and you can tell it is a characters motive, Rashid_Jamal for example is known throughout gangs as being someone who just doesn't fuck around, you look at him the wrong way and he's going to come and search your grandma's house for anything illegal. That I can tolerate. What I do not approve of (and is hard to prove) is the fact that cops will turn around to follow you until you make a mistake, call a felony stop because your character seems suspicious when really its just four black guys in a car and the officer wants something to do because they are bored, and even though its rather obvious how do you prove this? You can /b and they will tell you to stay in character where there is nothing you can do and you are sent of to sacf with no say. Cops should be there to prevent crime, not going around pulling over every Tyrone and his buddy Jamal because they are "behaving suspiciously" and they have "probable cause" to search his vehicle and himself.

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Re: Peace Officer misconduct (Report PD/SD)

Post by Ferdinand » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:49 am

iFlyKid wrote:
Ferdinand wrote:The fact that most cops like to RP that their career made them rich when they're still under Sergeant rank is a matter for another debate. This thread will however make them more aware and careful while doing their duty.


This has nothing to do to scare police officers or any of the members in the PD or SD. This is simply for players to be aware and rather informed that Internal Affairs does exist and justice can pass along both the law enforcement side as well as civilians. So this is not a scare tactic Krisk is trying to pull off if that's what's flying through your mind.


I disagree. While it may have not been krisk's intention to scare peace officers into doing things the right way, it will inevitably have a similar outcome. By raising awareness of procedures to rookies from both departments, their actions will be affected indirectly and they will in fact be more careful. By this I don't mean that all members don't know or understand procedures; just that it will definitely improve awareness of them to both sides of the law.

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Re: Peace Officer misconduct (Report PD/SD)

Post by Nessa » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:11 am

I'm glad that this topic has been posted. The idea of having corrupt or abusive deputies/officers just makes me shiver. However I am also scared that this will result in even more petty reports. Being in CS and having the opportunity to read through almost every SD report, I can say that there's already quite a high amount of petty reports. It just takes common sense really from the reporter side for him to decide whether the report would be petty or not!

Having that said, please don't turn this thread into one that bashes PD/SD. We don't want it getting locked!

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Re: Peace Officer misconduct (Report PD/SD)

Post by Pichu » Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:13 pm

Nessa wrote:I'm glad that this topic has been posted. The idea of having corrupt or abusive deputies/officers just makes me shiver. However I am also scared that this will result in even more petty reports. Being in CS and having the opportunity to read through almost every SD report, I can say that there's already quite a high amount of petty reports. It just takes common sense really from the reporter side for him to decide whether the report would be petty or not!

Having that said, please don't turn this thread into one that bashes PD/SD. We don't want it getting locked!


Thankyou! I can certainly second this..

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Re: Peace Officer misconduct (Report PD/SD)

Post by Pichu » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:06 pm

Well if a report is IC it goes through IAU, OOC reports go through CS/ES. Of course if a report is complete BS, we're usually pretty quick to pick up on it and those are dealt with accordingly.

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Re: Peace Officer misconduct (Report PD/SD)

Post by Kenshi_H » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:10 pm

now that everyone knows how to report officers, i'm gonna ask people to be reasonable and not report officers for idiotic stuff.
If an officer is swearing, it's not professional but would you really go to such lenghts to report him?

You're given the chance to report officers & deputies, don't abuse it please.

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Re: Peace Officer misconduct (Report PD/SD)

Post by Nessa » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:00 pm

krisk wrote:I don't see why you can't simply do as PD; if the incoming report is lacking evidence or is far too petty, unfound it on the spot, no need to get the entire wheel rolling for a report without evidence or meaning.


Pichu wrote:Well if a report is IC it goes through IAU, OOC reports go through CS/ES. Of course if a report is complete BS, we're usually pretty quick to pick up on it and those are dealt with accordingly.


Pichu is pretty much right. IAU members get the hang of how petty or useless reports are and they just handle them quickly and forward them to us with a small note at the end. We then just agree that it's invalid and that's all, we never really waste time on useless reports unless we sense that it's actually bigger than it really is.

But! There are also reports then which while they may seem useless, they actually have meaning. If a member gets reported for unnecessary comments, or something which is small, we may actually find out that it's not the first report on that member and therefore we need to warn him about repeating such things. That's why I don't agree with just throwing a report in the rubbish after just having a glance at it.

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Re: Peace Officer misconduct (Report PD/SD)

Post by Nathan » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:26 pm

smurph wrote:Its a lot harder to prove then just a simple report This_Cop has harrased me, a simple SS of a cop following you isnt going to do it and they will simply justify their actions (the majority) of the time that its in character. In some instances, yes it is in character and you can tell it is a characters motive, Rashid_Jamal for example is known throughout gangs as being someone who just doesn't fuck around, you look at him the wrong way and he's going to come and search your grandma's house for anything illegal. That I can tolerate. What I do not approve of (and is hard to prove) is the fact that cops will turn around to follow you until you make a mistake, call a felony stop because your character seems suspicious when really its just four black guys in a car and the officer wants something to do because they are bored, and even though its rather obvious how do you prove this? You can /b and they will tell you to stay in character where there is nothing you can do and you are sent of to sacf with no say. Cops should be there to prevent crime, not going around pulling over every Tyrone and his buddy Jamal because they are "behaving suspiciously" and they have "probable cause" to search his vehicle and himself.


Which I simply understand, and that is provoking. You can just simply do an /re in-game or report it on the forums and they will get dealt with like any other player would.

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Re: Peace Officer misconduct (Report PD/SD)

Post by Makaveli » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:12 pm

I've been playing on this server coming on six years now (literally a month after it was set up) and been in the PD for almost three years now and I know not of ONE officer who follows someone around waiting for them to do something illegal, or start a felony stop on a guy full of black guys because they're 'bored'. I must be missing something some of you seem to notice or if you honestly have witnessed someone in the PD do this then I can guarantee they're in a 1% minority. This new post doesn't give you the reason to report PD/SD left right and centre for the smallest mishap or mistake.
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Re: Peace Officer misconduct (Report PD/SD)

Post by Fergie » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:00 pm

smurph wrote:Its a lot harder to prove then just a simple report This_Cop has harrased me, a simple SS of a cop following you isnt going to do it and they will simply justify their actions (the majority) of the time that its in character. In some instances, yes it is in character and you can tell it is a characters motive, Rashid_Jamal for example is known throughout gangs as being someone who just doesn't fuck around, you look at him the wrong way and he's going to come and search your grandma's house for anything illegal. That I can tolerate. What I do not approve of (and is hard to prove) is the fact that cops will turn around to follow you until you make a mistake, call a felony stop because your character seems suspicious when really its just four black guys in a car and the officer wants something to do because they are bored, and even though its rather obvious how do you prove this? You can /b and they will tell you to stay in character where there is nothing you can do and you are sent of to sacf with no say. Cops should be there to prevent crime, not going around pulling over every Tyrone and his buddy Jamal because they are "behaving suspiciously" and they have "probable cause" to search his vehicle and himself.


Welcome to real life. It's called racial profiling. It happens every day in real life. Seeing a group of 4+ black guys in a vehicle driving slow through a gang related area, yeah it's suspicious. Not as suspicious as seeing 4+ white guys doing the same thing. it's not OOC stalking or harassing to follow a car waiting to see if they do something wrong. Cops do it daily. Where I live, cops can often be found following cars to see if they turn down known drug streets, run stop lights, intersections, waiting for them to speed. Get over it.
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Re: Peace Officer misconduct (Report PD/SD)

Post by Jarek_Knight » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:15 pm

Meh, it's probably going to be a whole lot of bogus mixtures of IC and OOC reports from here on out, outcome of said reports depending on whichever admin handles it. We all have different opinions, and both probable cause and suspicious are very loose concepts.

With that in mind, I can see a lot of players leaning even more toward roleplaying your a-okay textbook officer, in order to not risk their position within these unique factions. For better or worse, take your pick.

Other than that, I'd share Pacheco's, Broskie's, Michael's concerns, also agree with the two post above.

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Re: Peace Officer misconduct (Report PD/SD)

Post by KaylaSpace » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:01 pm

Jarek_Knight wrote:
With that in mind, I can see a lot of players leaning even more toward roleplaying your a-okay textbook officer, in order to not risk their position within these unique factions. For better or worse, take your pick.


To be fair people in criminal, or non-LEO factions roleplay the gangster or mafiosa in a textbook manner in order not to risk CK's and be capable of progressing. That's not a unique matter and I really doubt its the biggest issue with Police RP'ers being textbook good-guy cops.

Fergie wrote:Welcome to real life. It's called racial profiling. It happens every day in real life. Seeing a group of 4+ black guys in a vehicle driving slow through a gang related area, yeah it's suspicious. Not as suspicious as seeing 4+ white guys doing the same thing. it's not OOC stalking or harassing to follow a car waiting to see if they do something wrong. Cops do it daily. Where I live, cops can often be found following cars to see if they turn down known drug streets, run stop lights, intersections, waiting for them to speed. Get over it.


There is a massive difference between what you described and what Smurph did. There is a difference between a cop spotting a Tahoma with 4 gang-looking individuals going down an Idlewood road, driving slowly and sketchily, and being ICly concerned and suspicious and deciding to pursue them for some time and a bored RP'er OOCly reading nametags of known criminal RP'ers and deciding to stalk/pursue the car and initiate traffic stops and spam them with /do IS THERE ANYTHING ILLEGAL VISIBLE IN THE CAR? /DO CAN I SMELL DRUGS /do I HAVE A CANINE WITH ME HE CAN SNIFF ANY GUNS YOU HAVE ON YOU, ACCEPT FRISK.
One is clearly someone being immersed in their character and the other is an example of someone being bored OOCly. Its the difference between robbery-RP thats done because the individuals are bored OOC so decided to "go robbing" and someone who RP's a desperate character willing to make risky moves to get ahead.

The thing is when LEO RP'ers decide to be bored and go "RP fishing" they have a lot of power to really be disruptive and destructive to other peoples RP in a way criminal RP'ers simply do not.
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Re: Peace Officer misconduct (Report PD/SD)

Post by Jarek_Knight » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:10 pm

KaylaSpace wrote:
Jarek_Knight wrote:
With that in mind, I can see a lot of players leaning even more toward roleplaying your a-okay textbook officer, in order to not risk their position within these unique factions. For better or worse, take your pick.


To be fair people in criminal, or non-LEO factions roleplay the gangster or mafiosa in a textbook manner in order not to risk CK's and be capable of progressing. That's not a unique matter and I really doubt its the biggest issue with Police RP'ers being textbook good-guy cops.


It's bad on either side of the law, roleplaying a character with no flaws isn't difficult and naturally much more beneficial than creating a character with edges and flaws. What I'm trying to say is, that instead of roleplaying a character that walks a small margin between right or wrong, I'd feel more inclined to do everything by the book. Not for IC reasons, but for OOC reasons. Does that make sense?

The problem, to me, arises when I have to not only defend my actions IC'ly, but also OOC'ly on a constant basis over things that should be handled IC'ly. Such as a search, that in the opinion of the suspect, isn't founded on probable cause.

So what I'm looking at is OOC complaints to me, which turn into IC complaints, which upon failing, then turn into OOC complaints to an admin. And that could lead to OOC intervention, depending on the judgement of one out of several admins, with different points of view.

and both probable cause and suspicious are very loose concepts.


Any actions coming from IA, I couldn't care less about, as long as all evidence is acquired IC'ly. Whatever happens, happens regarding that.

What you mentioned above is an extreme example of non-roleplay, would be much easier dealt with on the forums, with screenshots as proof imo. I haven't witnessed any of that sort of behavior myself, but if I had, I'd be enraged regardless of what I'm roleplaying as.

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