[RULE 46 - EDIT] Prison Rules/Privileges.

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[RULE 46 - EDIT] Prison Rules/Privileges.

Post by Doggy » Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:43 am

46. Prison Rules/Privileges.
    [Rule] Not allowed to break out unless you have admin supervision the entire time and 6 active guards on duty. It provides fairness for both sides and will calm down all the craziness which in return would provide more roleplay/sanity inside of the prison.

    [Rule] You are only allowed to fight and brawl while having the required amount of guards on duty. Fighting another inmate requires 3 guards on duty, while attacking a guard requires 5 guards on duty.

    [Info] There are NPC guards at each door of the prison. This is a prison, people don't just walk/run in and out. Have some sort of decency at the doors when roleplaying.

    [Privilege] A prisoner not in isolation has the right to roleplaying outside of his cell. No player should be kept in their cell the majority of their time there. Also this is a privilege, so if a person breaks the rules constantly or anything of the such then it is their fault if kept in a cell.
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Re: [RULE 46 - EDIT] Prison Rules/Privileges.

Post by Raymond_Ward » Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:59 am

Absolutely perfect in my opinion. Yesterday was absolutely preposterous in many ways due to the amount of /b's regarding roleplay that people were trying to pull off in LSP. The realism as fighting and violence goes will now be do-able as even though I've not been here long, six guards seems like an impossibility right now, whereas three is possible. Thank-you for this update! Maybe now people won't break the rule of roleplaying at all times.

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Re: [RULE 46 - EDIT] Prison Rules/Privileges.

Post by damaz » Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:36 am

Yey! Finally this got released.
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Re: [RULE 46 - EDIT] Prison Rules/Privileges.

Post by QuantroO » Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:47 pm

Okay, this is better now, I think that there is one more rule, or I can't even call it rule, one more thing that should be added. I think that it is possible to add rule that says what gear you have in your own cell, I mean, that will help people create self-RP in LSP. In Prison in IRL, you don't have just bed, toilet and chairs, you have lighter and many more things. I love that update, thanks for the update.
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Re: [RULE 46 - EDIT] Prison Rules/Privileges.

Post by Doggy » Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:39 pm

QuantroO wrote:Okay, this is better now, I think that there is one more rule, or I can't even call it rule, one more thing that should be added. I think that it is possible to add rule that says what gear you have in your own cell, I mean, that will help people create self-RP in LSP. In Prison in IRL, you don't have just bed, toilet and chairs, you have lighter and many more things. I love that update, thanks for the update.



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Re: [RULE 46 - EDIT] Prison Rules/Privileges.

Post by Coolness™ » Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:43 am

It's great that the rules have been updated !

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Re: [RULE 46 - EDIT] Prison Rules/Privileges.

Post by Koehler » Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:46 pm

This is just great. RPing within LSP walls will be much more enjoyable.
AN

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Re: [RULE 46 - EDIT] Prison Rules/Privileges.

Post by Charlie Brown » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:56 pm

Doggy can you add "No provoking without enough guards on duty" to the list aswell?

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Re: [RULE 46 - EDIT] Prison Rules/Privileges.

Post by Kipps » Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:08 pm

Are these rules being sorted out?

I've been told by some people that a guard has to be "in sight" before any fight can take place, which is ridiculous as you're literally being told that you can only roleplay something illegal in the presence of a guard. It also completely eradicates an entire wealth of smart roleplay that involves baiting guards out of the area before somebody is attacked, or arranging a distraction. Instead, you're supposed to just attack inmates in front of guards now.

I've also been told guards need to be in the area before a fight can start. I honestly don't know what constitutes "the area". Does it mean the same interior? What about if you're in the tiny library interior? What about if you're in the yard interior but the guard is in one corner and you're at the opposite end? How am I supposed to figure out whether enough guards are in the area? Do I really have the obligation to jog around the yard counting guards before I hit somebody? It's hard enough ensuring that all four of the guards online are on-duty, now I need to double-check that they're in the area. Is it not the guards' jobs to ensure that they position themselves in a way that ensures they can watch everybody? You don't need three police officers outside the bank to commit a bank robbery, you just need them to be online. It should be the same in prison. The guards aren't retards, they should be able to position themselves adequately around the prison. Most of us are using fists to fight, these guys have tasers, sniper rifles, handguns and spray, as well as full armor and teamspeak radio. Now, for some reason, you also want them to be in the area? Can't they do that themselves?

What happens if the guards decide that it's too much effort to leave one of them in the yard, giving us the right to fight, and instead all three of them enter a cell block, essentially preventing us from fighting in the yard by the out of character rules? What happens if a guard leaves an area mid-way through a fight? Does the fight pause?

I bring this up because I have been kicked by admins for fighting when three guards were online, but only one was in the area. That means I'm being punished for a rule that isn't written down anywhere, and thank God, because it wouldn't work either. Can you run these new rules by the people who have characters exclusively for prison? A lot of Peckerwood and M.M members actually have some valuable insight that isn't being paid any attention.

Three guards online when there are less than X amount of players on, four guards online when there are more then X amount of players on. Players on being players on the server. To be honest though, the current rules in this thread work fine.

Give us simple, workable rules that people can abide by. Don't kick and ban players for rules that aren't even written in this forum, yet also outright contradict the rules in this forum. I was literally told that OOC chat is an alternative source of rules, even though I've never heard it mentioned in OOC chat that these rules are obsolete. They've been here months.
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Re: [RULE 46 - EDIT] Prison Rules/Privileges.

Post by Dec » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:43 pm

Hi Kipps,

Yes, there is a new set of rules being worked on (practically finalised) and will be implemented at the beginning of the new year in January. I'll take on board what you have written and will look at amending the prison rules as the new set is currently based on what you have stated about guards being in particular areas. Bear in mind that the new rules were drawn up JUST as SACF was implemented and thus we had hundreds of prisoners and loads of guards online, hence the change to being in the "area." However, I'm sure you'll agree, the level on inmates AND guards has dropped significantly once the hype of the new prison died down so the rule will be looked again before it gets implemented.

In terms of admins kicking you for rules which are not currently listed here, they should not be doing so until the new rules are implemented in January. Any that are, are most likely getting confused as they have seen/worked on the new rules with me and are forgetting they are not 100% implemented yet.

Any issues, please get in contact with a Lead Admin.

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Re: [RULE 46 - EDIT] Prison Rules/Privileges.

Post by Kipps » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:22 pm

Dec_Watson wrote:Hi Kipps,

Yes, there is a new set of rules being worked on (practically finalised) and will be implemented at the beginning of the new year in January. I'll take on board what you have written and will look at amending the prison rules as the new set is currently based on what you have stated about guards being in particular areas. Bear in mind that the new rules were drawn up JUST as SACF was implemented and thus we had hundreds of prisoners and loads of guards online, hence the change to being in the "area." However, I'm sure you'll agree, the level on inmates AND guards has dropped significantly once the hype of the new prison died down so the rule will be looked again before it gets implemented.

In terms of admins kicking you for rules which are not currently listed here, they should not be doing so until the new rules are implemented in January. Any that are, are most likely getting confused as they have seen/worked on the new rules with me and are forgetting they are not 100% implemented yet.

Any issues, please get in contact with a Lead Admin.

Regards,
Dec

Thank-you for the quick response!
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Re: [RULE 46 - EDIT] Prison Rules/Privileges.

Post by Kipps » Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:19 pm

Just another comment that's worth considering, this one concerning knives and prison.

Before we start, it's worth talking about prison gangs, specifically Peckerwood and the Mexican Mafia. These two factions are keeping inmate roleplay bearable, both for the other inmates and the DoC. Whenever these factions aren't around, or were they not around at all, any sense of depth or realism regarding prison roleplay would completely disappear. Combined, these factions are as useful to the enjoyment and success of prison roleplay as the DoC.

You can imagine then, that given all these factions have done, it's frustrating that they aren't allowed saveable knives in prison. It's like, in spite of the already troubling hurdles of prison roleplay, more hurdles are thrown down before them. I know that a lot of morons ask for shanks in prison, but can Mexican Mafia and Peckerwood members be seen above the general population? You might not want to give noobs saveable knives, but a lot of the very knowledgeable, trustworthy MM/Peckerwood members aren't noobs.

Get rid of the non-saveable knives rules for trusted prison inmates in Peckerwood and MM and give them some flexibility so that they don't feel like they're fighting the rules to keep prison roleplay enjoyable.
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Re: [RULE 46 - EDIT] Prison Rules/Privileges.

Post by subz3r0 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:22 am

Kipps wrote:Just another comment that's worth considering, this one concerning knives and prison.

Before we start, it's worth talking about prison gangs, specifically Peckerwood and the Mexican Mafia. These two factions are keeping inmate roleplay bearable, both for the other inmates and the DoC. Whenever these factions aren't around, or were they not around at all, any sense of depth or realism regarding prison roleplay would completely disappear. Combined, these factions are as useful to the enjoyment and success of prison roleplay as the DoC.

You can imagine then, that given all these factions have done, it's frustrating that they aren't allowed saveable knives in prison. It's like, in spite of the already troubling hurdles of prison roleplay, more hurdles are thrown down before them. I know that a lot of morons ask for shanks in prison, but can Mexican Mafia and Peckerwood members be seen above the general population? You might not want to give noobs saveable knives, but a lot of the very knowledgeable, trustworthy MM/Peckerwood members aren't noobs.

Get rid of the non-saveable knives rules for trusted prison inmates in Peckerwood and MM and give them some flexibility so that they don't feel like they're fighting the rules to keep prison roleplay enjoyable.


Definitly, can't tell you how many times my brother and I have even requested knives and we got denied, didn't even get the saveable ones. The answer to the denial was usually "We don't need everyone running around with knives." .....we aren't everyone we play here, not outside. I still think some people do look at us the wrong way believing were nazis, but were not, not even close. How ever I've already heard from an admin that we can smuggle scripted knives in our self.

And the other thing Kipps brought up about the guard in sight rule. So if you don't want to be a crash dummy who would just walk up to someone, stab him infront of god and everyone, rather than stalk someone until he's left alone and take him out in a stealth manner it's against the rules? Kind of confusing.

The current rules are ten times as better as the old ones though. The six guard rule was horrible,the only time that many guards were online at once was on like a sunday. It ruined prison roleplay for sometime. But the MM and the PN pulled through it didn't they?
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Re: [RULE 46 - EDIT] Prison Rules/Privileges.

Post by Kipps » Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:38 pm

I'd also just like to see now that, having been conscious of what the prisons would be like were guard rules proportionate to the number of players online, I know that my new rules wouldn't work. Sometimes there will be 350 players online, but one guard, other times there will be 220 players online but 3 guards. There's no pattern that the rules could be structured around.

For the non-saveable knife rules...
- You need an admin online and able to supervise the creation, which can be hard when there's only two admins online.
- You need a couple of DoC staff on-duty for the crafting of the knife.
- You need the person you want to kill to be online, unless you want to wait online for hours in the hope that he logs in.
- You need three guards on-duty before you can stab the guy.
- You ideally need the guy to be in an area where it's possible to stab him.

The odds of all these things being in place at once are, with the exception of Sundays and the odd evening, very unlikely.

It's a lot of hard work, so I hope these current issues can be considered. I know that we can smuggle our own scripted knives into the prison, but half the fun is making the knives out of the materials in the prison. It's just, at the moment, it's hard to do that.
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Re: [RULE 46 - EDIT] Prison Rules/Privileges.

Post by Charlie Brown » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:50 am

Kipps wrote:I'd also just like to see now that, having been conscious of what the prisons would be like were guard rules proportionate to the number of players online, I know that my new rules wouldn't work. Sometimes there will be 350 players online, but one guard, other times there will be 220 players online but 3 guards. There's no pattern that the rules could be structured around.

For the non-saveable knife rules...
- You need an admin online and able to supervise the creation, which can be hard when there's only two admins online.
- You need a couple of DoC staff on-duty for the crafting of the knife.
- You need the person you want to kill to be online, unless you want to wait online for hours in the hope that he logs in.
- You need three guards on-duty before you can stab the guy.
- You ideally need the guy to be in an area where it's possible to stab him.

The odds of all these things being in place at once are, with the exception of Sundays and the odd evening, very unlikely.

It's a lot of hard work, so I hope these current issues can be considered. I know that we can smuggle our own scripted knives into the prison, but half the fun is making the knives out of the materials in the prison. It's just, at the moment, it's hard to do that.


I'd also like admins to take the fact that we're not just sharpening chair-legs/toothbrushes, we put A LOT of effort into making weapons, some times even days of preparation. I remember once I planned two days to smuggle something back from a community service which relied on even attacking a guard, it worked and I managed to get a large piece of metal into the facility. Upon sending the /report for the admin permission I was told "No." just no. It was not only well planned/executed, but have approval from the DoC. Honestly the current rules regarding shanks vary between admins and what they cook up. I'd like something written about 'shank rules' - there's nothing of it to this point, which leaves the general LS-RP community clueless.

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