Loaning is no longer under the scamming/robbing limits:

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Re: Loaning is no longer under the scamming/robbing limits:

Post by |Lewis| » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:21 pm

The whole "If the person gets banned you don't get your money back" is completely ridiculous. Where's the harm in refunding someone who has just been ripped off on an OOC level?
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Re: Loaning is no longer under the scamming/robbing limits:

Post by Lean » Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:02 pm

If i loan from someone, and decide to scamm him and he finds me and i kill him?
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Re: Loaning is no longer under the scamming/robbing limits:

Post by Gman23 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:46 am

^

No scamming/robbing then killing. Even if you have yet to carry it out.

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Re: Loaning is no longer under the scamming/robbing limits:

Post by Hermy » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:02 pm

|Lewis| wrote:The whole "If the person gets banned you don't get your money back" is completely ridiculous. Where's the harm in refunding someone who has just been ripped off on an OOC level?

Because there is harm when you decide to recklessly loan money to people you don't even know with their background status and you expect money to pop out of nowhere to start empowering people to become rich.

Do you think banks just loan money to anyone? Follow their same concept. Government doesn't just print out money to banks cause someone suicide after loaning from them.
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Re: Loaning is no longer under the scamming/robbing limits:

Post by |Lewis| » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:10 pm

HermenLi wrote:Because there is harm when you decide to recklessly loan money to people you don't even know with their background status and you expect money to pop out of nowhere to start empowering people to become rich.

Do you think banks just loan money to anyone? Follow their same concept. Government doesn't just print out money to banks cause someone suicide after loaning from them.

You don't get the point; if someone takes your money and runs of IC then it's fine. I wouldn't expect to get refunded. But if the player gets banned then it's completely out of your control. It's an OOC problem and there's nothing you can do about it. Namechanging isn't bothering me as much as you can still contact the player. But if he's banned then you've got no chance.
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Re: Loaning is no longer under the scamming/robbing limits:

Post by Hermy » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:40 pm

Simply said - we are not encouraging the loaning roleplay if you cannot hold accountable for it under any circumstances.

There has been by far way too many reports back then about loaning scams including people loaning to level 1s and they eventually get themselves banned after spoiling the server with your money. How does that make sense? You're right - when they get banned, it is out of your control. You loaning them money to begin with was your control. It's time people face consequences when loaning to players to anyone.
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Re: Loaning is no longer under the scamming/robbing limits:

Post by Legend. » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:12 am

Is there an actual 'set' limit on how much you are allowed to loan scam Or is it just when it actually seems that you have scammed a huge amount and you feel you've went too far?
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Re: Loaning is no longer under the scamming/robbing limits:

Post by Hermy » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:17 pm

iLoaded wrote:Is there an actual 'set' limit on how much you are allowed to loan scam Or is it just when it actually seems that you have scammed a huge amount and you feel you've went too far?

No limitations. Just note the difference between your loaning scheme and the general outline of what scam is.
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Re: Loaning is no longer under the scamming/robbing limits:

Post by JenniferAvi » Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:52 pm

So I can scam some one for millions, spent it ic'ly, like buy house or vehicles, and not give him the money back?
just kill him ic'ly if he will come after you.????
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Re: Loaning is no longer under the scamming/robbing limits:

Post by Golden Vulture » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:45 pm

JenniferAvi wrote:So I can scam some one for millions, spent it ic'ly, like buy house or vehicles, and not give him the money back?
just kill him ic'ly if he will come after you.????

Yes, this rule was created because all of the loan scams he happened before it, you would have seen the refund request section filled with "Loan scammed", obviously, it's tiring and annoying for the admins to handle it, so they made the rule.
IRL, you can scam, of course, but if you want to prevent scamming, in my opinion you should gather all IC not scripted info, like bank account number, the scammer accountant, and then you will be able to recieve your money in a nice RP way that does not involve killing and senceless chasing.
If you are RP'ing a loan shark or something, you should be able to recieve your cash back in an illegal way.
About killing him to prevent chasing, you can kill him if he tried to chase you down, but unless he didn't, I wouldn't kill him as it counts like killing after a robbery scam, since you didn't have a proper reason to kill the victim, wich ruins all the RP.
So, basicly, yea you can scam the person, spend all his cash and to even kill him if he tries to kill you/chase you down for the cash. Just a tip, think about I wrote, IRL, legal loaners (I don't if that thing even exists) gather all your info, and will make sure you'll end up losing that cash without the senceless chasing.

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Re: Loaning is no longer under the scamming/robbing limits:

Post by madn » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:14 am

Hermy wrote:Simply said - we are not encouraging the loaning roleplay if you cannot hold accountable for it under any circumstances.

There has been by far way too many reports back then about loaning scams including people loaning to level 1s and they eventually get themselves banned after spoiling the server with your money. How does that make sense? You're right - when they get banned, it is out of your control. You loaning them money to begin with was your control. It's time people face consequences when loaning to players to anyone.

Although I agree with your point there, it's not exactly fair if you lone a close friend a large amount of your money and then they stupidly get talked into using hacks and end up permanently banned? There should be some exceptions made, refunds should only be denied when the loaner was really stupid. Besides, with these new scamming rules I doubt anybody's going to think twice about loaning to a level 1 anyway?

Also, loan scamming is one of the most ridiculous and non-rp ways of scamming, yet it's completely untouched by the rules? How does it make any sense that someone who's planned out a really clever and complex scam has to wait until they're level 10 and can only scam a limit of $50,000/$500,000 (which makes it kind of obvious if it's at/below these limits), but someone else on the other hand can just meet someone, sign a contract, and never pay the money back? I know there are occassionally loans made by loansharks, but most loans people roleplay contracts, so you could just show it to the courts and have them deal with it. Sure, "Why don't people just deal with it through the courts then?", well maybe it's very unrealistic in the first place to not pay back a legitimate loan that you've signed your name on a contract to?

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Re: Loaning is no longer under the scamming/robbing limits:

Post by Hermy » Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:34 am

madn wrote:Although I agree with your point there, it's not exactly fair if you lone a close friend a large amount of your money and then they stupidly get talked into using hacks and end up permanently banned? There should be some exceptions made, refunds should only be denied when the loaner was really stupid. Besides, with these new scamming rules I doubt anybody's going to think twice about loaning to a level 1 anyway?

Also, loan scamming is one of the most ridiculous and non-rp ways of scamming, yet it's completely untouched by the rules? How does it make any sense that someone who's planned out a really clever and complex scam has to wait until they're level 10 and can only scam a limit of $50,000/$500,000 (which makes it kind of obvious if it's at/below these limits), but someone else on the other hand can just meet someone, sign a contract, and never pay the money back? I know there are occassionally loans made by loansharks, but most loans people roleplay contracts, so you could just show it to the courts and have them deal with it. Sure, "Why don't people just deal with it through the courts then?", well maybe it's very unrealistic in the first place to not pay back a legitimate loan that you've signed your name on a contract to?


You're right. I understand the challenge you present to about "exceptions". However, we can imagine a lot of different scenarios and situations then that can follow under "exceptions" which would further complex all of us admins as a whole team in order to administer this particular roleplay. All in all - if you trust in someone being able to give something back to you - the decision is totally up to you. You had every right to step out and say no to the loan. So if you ended up losing it, then why should the responsibility be pushed to admins to fix it back for you? Does that make sense? I know it's unfair - but in the real world, the judge isn't going to smash its gavel and say you'll be printed out the money that was loss. Think of the Ponzi scheme.

What I can say is, admin team does not encourage roleplay consisting of loans especially when they push the responsibility onto the admins and expect that the admins will show up and print off money for them. And things would have to be taken ICly instead. It would be the same repeated response as I've always replied in this topic: admins do not encourage the roleplay. Do the roleplay at your own risk. It is a simple concept that people do not seem to get the grasp under still.
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Re: Loaning is no longer under the scamming/robbing limits:

Post by Matt_Czarnecki » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:44 pm

Hermy wrote:
Foster161 wrote:Are we, the police, allowed to somehow withdraw the money from the scammer's account, or otherwise get the money back after he already spent the amount?

This may sound confusing, but we are very often contacted by victims that have been scammed, and the people who stole the money always claim they have spent it.

I don't believe cops do that. That'll have to be from the court.

Warmonkey wrote:I hope the admin team gets those ways of tracking down money fast, because I see a lot of people rage quitting soon. :|


It has always been the case of scenario that admins should not have been intervening with loans to begin with. Whoever began the loan idea as a roleplay and then falling back on admins to metagame our "No scamming over 50k limit" was smart. But a loan is not a scam. How was it in any strategic way to take money off someone? The least creativity put forth. Also - it became a win/win situation for the person loaning. You loan 100k, you either get whatever you want back from the player, or you report them and equally get 100k back. Made no sense.


The money that has been loaned has been spent, used, transferred, whatever it is - to other accounts or somewhere in the server, its lost in there. That doesn't make our server any better when admins are now spawning money for players who allegedly lost their money. Think about it in reality. Do you really, loan to anyone? No one is able to "spit" back the money into your own hands. That would be your own fault and your own lesson to learn.


Something like loaning money from scammer would be abusing, i mean. Would it be set scriptwise to let you withdraw cash from the scammer, and not everyone on ls-rp?
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Re: Loaning is no longer under the scamming/robbing limits:

Post by Crocop5 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:42 pm

Damn it, I didn't know this rule even exist and I lost 70k -.-
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