[Tutorial] A case for RPing realistically

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Santino_Valenti
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[Tutorial] A case for RPing realistically

Post by Santino_Valenti » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:21 pm

Fed's edit: It's not an announcement but a very good thread to read, it has many good points, not only in the first post. Please read it.

This might take more than 5 seconds to read, so bear with me. Visual aids are included to keep your attention.

I see a lot of hypocrisy in this forum when it comes to people talking about the most desirable way to RP. The debate is almost always about the distinction between RP and real life. Let me designate a few terms first. The real life argument is that you should RP your character as if it's real life. The RP argument is that you should RP your character however you want your character to be. One's more realistic, while the other is seen by some as more "fun." Now, back to what I was saying.

Nowadays you have about ten of these threads made a week (which is a whole other issue), and they're pushing for one of these two arguments. They either say something along the lines of "send the whiners to the gulags!" and "it's a video game so I'll RP in a fun way" - these being representations of the RP-how-you-want argument. And everyone praises the RP-how-you-want argument because it vilifies a common annoyance we all experience: OOC complaining. Even more, it holds up in reverence something we all want: fun. No bitching and fun should sound like a winning combination to everyone. So then about 50 people post the same thing (something along the lines of: +1, QFT, etc.) and we all say that's how we want things to be.

I remember a good point that Karl made a while back. I can't recall the exact phrasing, but it was along the lines of this: if you make a post with good grammar and structure, people will support your argument regardless of its content. From what I've seen, this holds true in nearly every scenario. Because a few days later, someone posts about non-RPers and Rambos. They say that their RP experience has been ruined by some douchebag that didn't RP a situation realistically, ran away from ten guys with guns, refused to give up information in torture, or something analogous. What happens is that the very people who say: "Yeah, it's a game, let's have fun!" are the ones that also support the people who say "RP this like real life, RP to lose once in a while; nobody's superman." I don't know if this is because most people here sometimes act like lemmings and will just agree with whatever the opinion at hand is, or if it's the inherent hypocrisy in all these kinds of posts.

Lemmings:
Image

I think a lot of it is the hypocrisy. When you're the guy with ten guns pointed out you, you're a supporter of the RP-how-you-want argument. When you're one of the ten guys, you want him to RP to lose. In other words, you support whatever argument seems to best fit your needs in the particular situation. Well, stop.

Where do I stand? Personally, I'm one of those "hardcore" (although I don't see anything that's too hardcore about it) RPers that says you should RP realistically. Somehow the word "realism" has become very taboo on here for reasons I'll never understand. I don't see why 100% of the server doesn't feel the same way, because after all, did you not all come here to play on an "RP" server? Personally, I don't think giving your character a 50-inch penis and the ability to lift a truck is okay because it's how you want to write your character. Why don't I RP my character as an unkillable rapist? It's FUN, and it's what I (notice the emphasis on "I" there) want to do with my character.

Well, here's the problem with all of you who say "RP however you want." Role-play involves participation from everyone. You want to know how to stop the OOC complaints and the non-RP? I can tell you what causes it: the selfishness and disregard people have for other characters. If you want to be a serial killer, that involves other characters dying. But the players behind those other characters don't want their character to die. They want their character to live to the age of 80 and amount a massive fortune. But you want your character to kill someone. But they don't want their character to die... and so on. Same thing with my rapist example. I want my character to rape people and to never get arrested/die. But nobody wants to get raped, and the cops want to arrest me...

Do you see what the problem is here? Divergent agendas. We want things for our character that cannot be reconciled with what other people want for their character. We can't all be mass murderers that don't die; because in order for that to happen, someone needs to be on the receiving end of getting killed. This is why people should be held accountable to RP with sensibility and realism. To me, realism is a guiding principle that keeps our IC actions in check, and stops people from receding to self-interested solipsism. I'm getting sick of this "RP to have fun" shit, because all it leads to is a focus on your character, and only your character. If you don't think RPing realistically is "fun", then RPG/DM servers are a better fit for you. RP is more than just typing in a bunch of /me commands and having persistent stats. Just because you use 20 /me commands when you're RPing that you're superman doesn't make it legitimate RP. RP is also about realism.

Superman (not you):
Image

And that's not to say realism means more /me commands or even less "action" like shootouts or fights. It just means that the ways in which these occur, and the reasons for them, are a lot more sensible, and less likely to cause OOC frustration.

Now I understand this is a video game, and obviously your character can still be brave. If I'm torturing you with a nail gun, a curb stomp, vicious beatings, and having your testicles shocked with jumper cables, you should tell me what I want to know. Likewise, don't spit in the face of a mafia boss because that's your character. Everyone has their limits, and most people have a very low limit. If people don't roleplay realistically, we end up with a clash of titans: two people want to win, but only one can. The result of this? OOC complaining, report threads, grudges, DM -- all things that I don't like to experience when I come on this server.

The best RP happens when people play their characters realistically and sensibly. I don't know where this myth that always RPing to win and never to lose is somehow fun and RPing realistically is somehow unfun. Yes, RP requires you to have at least a five second attention span, but for those who are patient, mature, and not selfish in every situation, it is thoroughly rewarding. Not only is it less frustrating, but the RP that arises is fun for all of the groups involved.
Last edited by Santino_Valenti on Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:35 am, edited 4 times in total.
Other than that, I have no concerns.

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Re: A case for RPing realistically

Post by Thor » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:26 pm

Ehh. . .

I don't see anything to discuss here about this, but uh . . . i agree with this? :lol:

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Re: A case for RPing realistically

Post by Joey_Cortez » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:26 pm

Ouch, I got nothin.

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Re: A case for RPing realistically

Post by Nunziatta » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:27 pm

Agreed. Nice post Sonny.

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Re: A case for RPing realistically

Post by Gina » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:33 pm

Clap clap clap.


nice.

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Re: A case for RPing realistically

Post by Rab_Lawrence » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:03 am

I have a few things I have to say on this topic.

I do very much agree with you. I think too many people bend their roleplay to try and save as much of their e-monies as they can after the respawn, and I also agree that when being tortured horribly, it is irritating to see someone who doesn't budge. This does absolutely not, however, mean that if someone is not spilling beans, that it is stupid. I am also a total 'RP like in real life' because that's what this is, it's not 'I'm making this character have a 3rd heart because it's fun lolkilolol' because that's ridiculous.

I think comparing things to real life in situations etc is how the most accurate result of a roleplay event should be done. When being tortured I'd spill whatever information they're after if I'm going to die because of it, but that doesn't mean to say any other result is nonrp. A bit of variety is what is to be desired.

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Re: A case for RPing realistically

Post by Braveheart » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:05 am

Obviously you're half talking about my post. Well pal, I don't care about whether or not I win in RP and if the guy I attempt to arrest actually goes with it, what I care about is the stupid and non-RP shit people do. For example, jumping from a 300 foot cliff side into the sea at about 80 MPH, getting out and casually swimming off. It's possible in the game but I'd LOVE to see someone try that in real life, please fucking do it film it and show me it. It is impossible to do UNLESS it is staged and you have help at hand to get you the fuck outa that car before it's on the ocean bed.

Etc. Get my point?
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Re: A case for RPing realistically

Post by ganjubas » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:14 am

You just won 20 internets and unlimited respect points from myself. This line before has been revolving 'round my brain for a while and I didn't know how to put it shortly. You just did.

Epic win.

I'm getting sick of this "RP to have fun" shit. If you don't think RPing realistically is "fun", then RPG/DM servers are a better fit for you.
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Re: A case for RPing realistically

Post by Santino_Valenti » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:24 am

Milne wrote:Obviously you're half talking about my post. Well pal, I don't care about whether or not I win in RP and if the guy I attempt to arrest actually goes with it, what I care about is the stupid and non-RP shit people do. For example, jumping from a 300 foot cliff side into the sea at about 80 MPH, getting out and casually swimming off. It's possible in the game but I'd LOVE to see someone try that in real life, please fucking do it film it and show me it. It is impossible to do UNLESS it is staged and you have help at hand to get you the fuck outa that car before it's on the ocean bed.

Etc. Get my point?


Actually, I wasn't referring to your post at all. I'm saying that people should RP like they would in real life, which seems like it would be in support of what your argument that too many people on here act like untouchable rambos.
Other than that, I have no concerns.

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Re: A case for RPing realistically

Post by AnDre » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:25 am

Totally agreed, speacially the SuperMan part.
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Re: A case for RPing realistically

Post by Pedro » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:42 am

You know it's ironic that you post this, because if I remember correctly, some italian with some sort of V name, possibly Valenti, came into Los Locotes territory, basically said, "this hood is ours" and had all his lackey's pull guns out of their asses and wait for someone to make the first move. In my opinion this is a perfect example of power-gaming and DM, unprovoked, they come in with three cars and terrorize a few broke mexicans, shoot them, and then drive off.

Forgive me if I glaze over a few details here and I'm a bit biased, I tend to be against shitty roleplay. And if you hadn't noticed, this is about hypocracy, and the fact that you were the one who I remember being one of the power players at that 'event.' Now, if it wasn't infact you, shame on me, but if it was you, shame on you.

In my experience, at least the reasons why I've 'rped for fun' in the past is because let's face it, walking everywhere it's incredibly boring, patience semantics aside. Laying down after one shot is also pretty bogus, with the rediculous amount of shooting that goes on in LS:RP, any simple altercation would end in one person lying on the ground while another runs up and shoots them in the head. So yeah, I'll run if I get hit once, I've never been shot, but I assume as long as you aren't shot in the head or the heart you can jog for a short distance.
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Re: A case for RPing realistically

Post by Santino_Valenti » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:33 am

Pedro wrote:You know it's ironic that you post this, because if I remember correctly, some italian with some sort of V name, possibly Valenti, came into Los Locotes territory, basically said, "this hood is ours" and had all his lackey's pull guns out of their asses and wait for someone to make the first move. In my opinion this is a perfect example of power-gaming and DM, unprovoked, they come in with three cars and terrorize a few broke mexicans, shoot them, and then drive off.

Forgive me if I glaze over a few details here and I'm a bit biased, I tend to be against shitty roleplay. And if you hadn't noticed, this is about hypocracy, and the fact that you were the one who I remember being one of the power players at that 'event.' Now, if it wasn't infact you, shame on me, but if it was you, shame on you.


This couldn't have been me. I would never kick a gang out of their "turf"; the Cosa Nostra isn't a street gang that fights for geographical areas. We're a city-wide organization, and we operate everywhere. Besides, it's way below my character's stature as boss to get his hands dirty in the actual fighting. If I did want to attack someone, I'd send my goons; you wouldn't actually see me.

Pedro wrote:In my experience, at least the reasons why I've 'rped for fun' in the past is because let's face it, walking everywhere it's incredibly boring, patience semantics aside. Laying down after one shot is also pretty bogus, with the rediculous amount of shooting that goes on in LS:RP, any simple altercation would end in one person lying on the ground while another runs up and shoots them in the head. So yeah, I'll run if I get hit once, I've never been shot, but I assume as long as you aren't shot in the head or the heart you can jog for a short distance.


Yeah, this is a good point. I should probably clarify what I mean by realistic RP. More /me commands does not necessarily mean more realism. I'm talking about the decision to withhold information when you're being brutally tortured, or spitting in a mob boss' face when you're outnumbered 10 to 1. In other words, people's refusal to RP to lose once in a while.

Personally, I don't do /me commands when I get shot either. All of those actions (shooting, getting shot, etc.) are already in the game, so there's no need for me to use /me commands for them.
Other than that, I have no concerns.

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Re: A case for RPing realistically

Post by Chico_Cruz » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:13 am

When was this edited?
Last edited by Chico_Cruz on Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A case for RPing realistically

Post by CheapShot21 » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:23 am

Van wrote:I don't mind if you feel strongly about your opinion, but you don't have to be condescending and act like whatever you think is what should be the set standard around here.


I'd hate to be a buzz-kill here, but what he has said is a general view shared by most elitists and decent Roleplayers. If you don't agree with this point of view, please explain your reasoning and someone might be inclined to either change their argument, or try and persuade you to change yours.

If it's simply a matter of wording and tone, I don't believe you should feel any hostility unless the first point applies, in which case you should still state your argument. Also, you might consider that, seeing as text can be interpreted a number of ways in terms of tone, symbolism, and other things, that maybe you just got the wrong idea and he did not mean to be condescending. A perfect example of a different interpretations that can be found is Milne's annoyance at thinking this was a retort to an earlier post of his.

Disclaimer:
I'd like to point out (just in case anyone finds my post insulting in any way) that I am not affiliated with "Sonny" in any way other than in mirrored opinion on the subject (I actually haven't even heard of him before now). My view of the situation may be completely wrong and my comment inappropriate or unable to do justice to Sonny's statements, in which case I'd hope someone corrects me.
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Re: A case for RPing realistically

Post by Rab_Lawrence » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:30 pm

Van wrote:I don't mind if you feel strongly about your opinion, but you don't have to be condescending and act like whatever you think is what should be the set standard around here?

He's saying that too many people roleplay to what is best for them after the respawn. I think people need to empathise their character, and not be superman/rambo/chico or any other hunky muscled greasy hero, and they should act realistic instead of, as I said, what ends up better for them.

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