Police OOC Corruption Rules

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Re: Police OOC Corruption Rules

Post by Duco » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:46 pm

It's to prevent having every John and Jane being corrupt for their own benefit or having people join the faction /specifically/ to leak stuff to keep their e-cash stacking.
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Re: Police OOC Corruption Rules

Post by Savokage » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:51 pm

Farrell wrote:This isn't necessarily true. Your work doesn't go "down the toilet" - whether your CI's are leaked and killed or not, these situations and casefiles aren't taken through an IC court system, without a doubt you'll still use the charges against the people you have them against and you might even go to the assumption that the CI was murdered due to a leak, in that case - it's IC after all, some people just need to take the loss.
Said people would just buy a name change and start a new character to avoid a faction take down.

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Re: Police OOC Corruption Rules

Post by AceS| » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:12 am

Savokage wrote:
Farrell wrote:This isn't necessarily true. Your work doesn't go "down the toilet" - whether your CI's are leaked and killed or not, these situations and casefiles aren't taken through an IC court system, without a doubt you'll still use the charges against the people you have them against and you might even go to the assumption that the CI was murdered due to a leak, in that case - it's IC after all, some people just need to take the loss.
Said people would just buy a name change and start a new character to avoid a faction take down.
That's not allowed though, to just namechange out of a casefile. Police are allowed to namechange however and keep their Detective ranks and their position in the casefile if I'm not mistaken. (This is what I heard recently).

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Re: Police OOC Corruption Rules

Post by VaudeVillian » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:15 am

I just feel like every cop would roleplay corrupt if we let them though. I mean look how many cops, DOC, SD, FD rp as like serial killers and shit.
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Re: Police OOC Corruption Rules

Post by top boy » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:23 am

Corruption needs to be regulated to a certain extent, however, roleplay on alternative characters that have nothing to do with the faction shouldn't be regulated at all. Many faction leaders forget that they're not administrators and that they shouldn't be controlling a player's enjoyment of this game entirely. I had my fair share of corruption roleplay and the way I see it right now, I think it's fine. The only part I don't agree on is the rules against alternative characters.

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Re: Police OOC Corruption Rules

Post by Savokage » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:26 am

AceS| wrote:That's not allowed though, to just namechange out of a casefile.
"I got bored of this character." or "I want to try something new." It happens.
AceS| wrote:Police are allowed to namechange however and keep their Detective ranks and their position in the casefile if I'm not mistaken. (This is what I heard recently).
Taken from the Faction Takedown: Guidelines and Requirements:
Pitchounette wrote:If an illegal faction that is being investigated on finds out about the ongoing investigations as well as the detective behind them in character, you have the option to request an approval for a detective PK. This option allows you to temporarily suspend the detective from working on the casefile for 2 months. The player whose detective character was killed may not use a different character to continue said investigations during the given month.

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Re: Police OOC Corruption Rules

Post by Riprie » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:36 am

I think it's fair. It takes a lot of effort to investigate a faction as a detective, and it can take a long time.

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Re: Police OOC Corruption Rules

Post by steven_mosca » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:41 am

I feel the OOC corruption rules should be more relaxed. However, I still feel like there should be rules against leaking casefiles. As mentioned previously, by Darnell, it's completely unfair that detective spend 6 months etc. building a solid case, against a faction, for it to be ruined by some guy who just got added to the division. Although, I don't believe leaking direct information from casefiles should be allowed, I do however feel tip-offs on raids and warrants, should be allowed. Why? As mentioned by Aces, it's roleplay. At the end of the day, things are leaked, there are tip offs, information is passed on. The only thing, I feel that is unfair, is for people to be allowed to leak direct information from a casefile; CIs, deferred charges, warehouse location etc.
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Re: Police OOC Corruption Rules

Post by AceS| » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:26 am

Savokage wrote:
AceS| wrote:That's not allowed though, to just namechange out of a casefile.
"I got bored of this character." or "I want to try something new." It happens.
AceS| wrote:Police are allowed to namechange however and keep their Detective ranks and their position in the casefile if I'm not mistaken. (This is what I heard recently).
Taken from the Faction Takedown: Guidelines and Requirements:
Pitchounette wrote:If an illegal faction that is being investigated on finds out about the ongoing investigations as well as the detective behind them in character, you have the option to request an approval for a detective PK. This option allows you to temporarily suspend the detective from working on the casefile for 2 months. The player whose detective character was killed may not use a different character to continue said investigations during the given month.
I meant namechanging without being PK'ed though.

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Re: Police OOC Corruption Rules

Post by brace » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:34 am

I heard special permission is given to detectives wishing to roleplay corrupt, don't know if that still stands with the new leadership or not.

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Re: Police OOC Corruption Rules

Post by Wildcat » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:41 am

...and here goes the split.


Corruption is good. There, I said it. In terms of providing a wide variety of roleplay on this server, corruption of all forms (not just police, in government, politics, etc.) is a must. That's coming from a man who has run Internal Affairs for two different legal factions on this server (I took part in the creation of SADOC IAU and I've been the long-time Director of SASD IAU). Why should we be afraid? Really, why should we? If someone is stupid enough and does stupid enough things, they're going to get caught.

I find OOC corruption to break roleplay at times. It means that you have to intervene yourself to stop your character from having a realistic reaction to a situation — all for the sake of what? An outdated rule prohibiting all but few forms of corruption?

The other issue is what defines corruption. Corruption is, in my opinion, not beating someone up. It's not making a questionable shoot. It's not roleplaying high emotions after a stressful situation (which would impact job performance). Corruption in itself is purposefully and knowingly acting against the interests of the public for personal gain. This means that if Officer John Doe does favors for mob boss John Fahgettaboutti in return for money, he is corrupt. This means that if Deputy Jane Doe lets loose and beats the shit out of someone for attempting to attack her, she is not corrupt.
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Re: Police OOC Corruption Rules

Post by AceS| » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:45 am

Wildcat wrote:...and here goes the split.


Corruption is good. There, I said it. In terms of providing a wide variety of roleplay on this server, corruption of all forms (not just police, in government, politics, etc.) is a must. That's coming from a man who has run Internal Affairs for two different legal factions on this server (I took part in the creation of SADOC IAU and I've been the long-time Director of SASD IAU). Why should we be afraid? Really, why should we? If someone is stupid enough and does stupid enough things, they're going to get caught.

I find OOC corruption to break roleplay at times. It means that you have to intervene yourself to stop your character from having a realistic reaction to a situation — all for the sake of what? An outdated rule prohibiting all but few forms of corruption?

The other issue is what defines corruption. Corruption is, in my opinion, not beating someone up. It's not making a questionable shoot. It's not roleplaying high emotions after a stressful situation (which would impact job performance). Corruption in itself is purposefully and knowingly acting against the interests of the public for personal gain. This means that if Officer John Doe does favors for mob boss John Fahgettaboutti in return for money, he is corrupt. This means that if Deputy Jane Doe lets loose and beats the shit out of someone for attempting to attack her, she is not corrupt.
Food for thought. I completely agree.

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Re: Police OOC Corruption Rules

Post by BlueX » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:03 am

If you're in LSPD DB you're not allowed to leak anything, either it be OOCly or ICly due to a lot of effort put into the division. The problem here and what everyone fears is that some random dude shows up and leaks a lot of stuff that was hard to get, that took months, as you see factions takedowns don't happen every month, it happens once per time, thus it means that a lot of time is taken and this is a game, so you get this point, however, I do also understand that there should be a link, not properly corruption, but what Aces mentioned, if you manage to kill a Detective and steal his information you should be able to get a hold on his documents.

The problem with casefiles is that you really take some good amount of time to jail folks for a couple of hours ( I know that 12 hours is still huge ), but the point is that you may take 1 month to get a casefile done because you need people to be online, you need to contact people OOCly, ask them questions and overall make the game fair, so yeah it may be bad when something gets leaked from your casefile because it wasn't your fault. Now, if you say that perhaps I was doing surveillance on your gang and I die and you try to get some information, like I said, it should be possible and I would be okay since it was my fault.

I think this shouldn't even be corruption, you should be looking forward to see leaking when a gang strikes a detective, like you guys did very well done, you killed two officers ( I was involved on that scene so I remember ) and you took the car and tried to get the necessary information, in my honest opinion, you should get the information that was present, but let me also say that guidelines should be written, I don't believe officers carry their casefiles with them, they do that job on the office, so you wouldn't get access to everything, but you would get access to enough.
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Re: Police OOC Corruption Rules

Post by Shivam » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:09 am

In this particular case it seems the LSPD faction rules have conflicted with the in-game server rules, and they have overpowered them. They have even essentially created a case where an LSPD command officer is above the server's own rules and can decide whether he'd like an officer to powergame or not.

That said the rules are in place because detectives spend a lot of time building these cases and its so easy to ruin months, even years of hard work. If a detective gets fired, the player could just make a new character and rejoin the LSPD or SASD so the consequence isn't as big.

With that in mind detectives should stop logging in every day thinking it's their job to police/investigate the server, and instead log in to roleplay being a detective. If information about their investigations gets leaked, so be it, take it in character as long as it wasn't done unrealistically.

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Re: Police OOC Corruption Rules

Post by Farrell » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:27 am

Shivam wrote:In this particular case it seems the LSPD faction rules have conflicted with the in-game server rules, and they have overpowered them. They have even essentially created a case where an LSPD command officer is above the server's own rules and can decide whether he'd like an officer to powergame or not.

That said the rules are in place because detectives spend a lot of time building these cases and its so easy to ruin months, even years of hard work. If a detective gets fired, the player could just make a new character and rejoin the LSPD or SASD so the consequence isn't as big.

With that in mind detectives should stop logging in every day thinking it's their job to police/investigate the server, and instead log in to roleplay being a detective. If information about their investigations gets leaked, so be it, take it in character as long as it wasn't done unrealistically.
Amen. That's something I actually miss, interaction with Detectives. Not bashing the current ones but I can't remember the last time I roleplayed with one properly on a criminal character, where the roleplay wasn't one-sided. Even the smallest of interaction means the most however there're some people out there who just seem like they'd prefer to spend their day investigating and camping you with a camera.

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