[Discussion/Questions] San Andreas Penal Code

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Re: [Discussion/Questions] San Andreas Penal Code

Post by Zuthrex » Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:12 pm

Does federal law apply? If so, which federal laws, statutes, etc. are applicable in LS-RP?
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Re: [Discussion/Questions] San Andreas Penal Code

Post by kavinsky » Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:14 pm

Descent wrote:Does federal law apply? If so, which federal laws, statutes, etc. are applicable in LS-RP?


Only under special circumstances or which would make sense in the laws we currently have. USC and Federal Laws alltogether with the Penal Code would be too much.

Obviously Bill of Rights/Amendments apply.
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Re: [Discussion/Questions] San Andreas Penal Code

Post by Rojan » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:37 am

Is entrapment a defense for sting operations on this server? Do police officers abide by the law that they must be in plain, open areas if they are running a speed trap? Is it illegal to talk on your cellphone in the car? Is it illegal to text in your car while driving?
Last edited by Rojan on Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Discussion/Questions] San Andreas Penal Code

Post by Zuthrex » Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:04 am

kavinsky wrote:
Descent wrote:Does federal law apply? If so, which federal laws, statutes, etc. are applicable in LS-RP?


Only under special circumstances or which would make sense in the laws we currently have. USC and Federal Laws alltogether with the Penal Code would be too much.

Obviously Bill of Rights/Amendments apply.


I get a lot of criticism from cops about this, so i'd like a list of amendments, federal laws, and supreme court decisions which are applicable. Here's a few that I have used in the past to resolve disputes:
- Writ of Habeas Corpus
- Amendments 1-26
- United States Constitution
- U.S.A. Patriot Act
- Entrapment
- Doctor-Patient Confidentiality / Attorney-Client Privilege
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Re: [Discussion/Questions] San Andreas Penal Code

Post by nitraM » Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:16 am

(2)12. Possession Of Burglary Tools ↑
Every person having upon him or her in his or her possession a picklock, crow, keybit, crowbar, screwdriver, vise grip pliers, water-pump pliers, slim jim, tension bar, lock pick gun, tubular lock pick, bump key, floor-safe door puller, master key, ceramic or porcelain spark plug chips or pieces, or other instrument or tool with intent to breach a lock without possession of proper licensing.
- Penal Code (2)12 is a citation punishable with a fine of $3,000.

Does this include the visual objects like the screw driver etc? because someone who wants to roleplay a mechanic at my garage wants to have the visual object for the RP.

I also have a question as I do not see any laws against driving with lights off ((/v lights))
This is not against the law and we should not be pulled over for this right?

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Re: [Discussion/Questions] San Andreas Penal Code

Post by Supra. » Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:52 am

nitraM wrote:(2)12. Possession Of Burglary Tools ↑
Every person having upon him or her in his or her possession a picklock, crow, keybit, crowbar, screwdriver, vise grip pliers, water-pump pliers, slim jim, tension bar, lock pick gun, tubular lock pick, bump key, floor-safe door puller, master key, ceramic or porcelain spark plug chips or pieces, or other instrument or tool with intent to breach a lock without possession of proper licensing.
- Penal Code (2)12 is a citation punishable with a fine of $3,000.

Does this include the visual objects like the screw driver etc? because someone who wants to roleplay a mechanic at my garage wants to have the visual object for the RP.

I also have a question as I do not see any laws against driving with lights off ((/v lights))
This is not against the law and we should not be pulled over for this right?


Possession of Burglary Tools only applies to people who are being charged with Grand Theft Auto, Grand Theft, Breaking and Entering, and etcetera. Someone who's walking around a garage shouldn't be arrested for possession, if he or she isn't trying to break into a vehicle, or property.

It has to do with context, really..

EDIT: I stated the above from an IC point of view. From an OOC point of view, you still have the 'Toolkit' object that shows up whenever /frisk'd. If this is the case, and you own one, and say, you were walking away from a car with an alarm on.. Then you can be charged for it, because ICly, you have a tool that could've been used to set off that alarm, and OOCly, you have the tool required to pick its lock.
Last edited by Supra. on Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Discussion/Questions] San Andreas Penal Code

Post by Dustball. » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:05 am

The toolkit was created as an illegal item. I was told that it will forever remain an illegal item to hold whether role-played a mechanic tools or etc. Impounders use them to access vehicles for impound, mechanics, civilians, or in between have no need for them and will get them removed. As Supra said, leniency is key, I tend to just confiscate if it's found on your person and you haven't been convicted for an associated felony or you're just not suspected of using it.

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Re: [Discussion/Questions] San Andreas Penal Code

Post by • iGoon • » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:25 am

Imo, evading shouldn't be a 3 hour thing. Maybe an hour or 30 minutes because right now you get more just for running than you do stealing a car. Even better it should just be resisting arrest.

Also, I was told all "Possession of a Stolen Vehicle" Go under GTA. If, as a cop, you can not prove they stole the car by either witnessing it or them having a toolkit. They should not get the GTA time for it, they should just get charged with possession of stolen property.
If you steal a watch irl then sell it, if the guy who bought it is caught with it, they won't say he stole it. They will say he has possession of a stolen object.
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Re: [Discussion/Questions] San Andreas Penal Code

Post by Rees » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:55 am

• iGoon • wrote:Imo, evading shouldn't be a 3 hour thing. Maybe an hour or 30 minutes because right now you get more just for running than you do stealing a car. Even better it should just be resisting arrest.


Evading is only 60 minutes. While GTA is an 1 hour 20 minutes. Resisting it a completely different law altogether.


• iGoon • wrote:Also, I was told all "Possession of a Stolen Vehicle" Go under GTA. If, as a cop, you can not prove they stole the car by either witnessing it or them having a toolkit. They should not get the GTA time for it, they should just get charged with possession of stolen property.
If you steal a watch irl then sell it, if the guy who bought it is caught with it, they won't say he stole it. They will say he has possession of a stolen object.


I agree with you here and I will forwards your proposal for a stolen property clause for GTA. I do not think it should fall under receiving stolen property, since that is more for small items, like TV, and the like, But a new law for having a stolen vehicle in your possession.
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Re: [Discussion/Questions] San Andreas Penal Code

Post by Rojan » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:09 am

Please return more depth to some of the charges, such as adding 1st and 2nd degree murder back. It makes it a lot more involved for Lawyers when haggling with Law Enforcement during questioning / plea deals.
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Re: [Discussion/Questions] San Andreas Penal Code

Post by Young » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:47 am

When can officers stack the same charge on somebody? If, for example, the suspect shot and killed two civilians, would he be charged with murder twice?

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Re: [Discussion/Questions] San Andreas Penal Code

Post by Zuthrex » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:23 pm

Young wrote:When can officers stack the same charge on somebody? If, for example, the suspect shot and killed two civilians, would he be charged with murder twice?


Would it matter? Max. time would be reached anyway once time is calculated (possession of an illegal firearm, endangering the public or whatever, murder, evading, resisting, non-compliance, etc.).


By the way, Max. time never has made sense to me. Maximum time in prison should be 9999m (after the Justice Update releases) and only assignable as a sentence from a judge after a court case.
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Re: [Discussion/Questions] San Andreas Penal Code

Post by Dustball. » Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:55 pm

Facial obstruction
Law that disallows any facial obstruction during riots, in a "public crime-free zone" like parks, hospitals, and etc that grants a peace officer the right to arrest a civilian who does not cooperate with law enforcement in removing any facial obstruction that is deemed unfit that may cause an uproar or start riotous behavior. It is considered a Misdemeanor B and is heavily enforced that comes with a $150((1.5k)) ticket and possible jail-time.

Court Appearance Required: Yes.

Jaywalking
Recklessly walking/running through a crosswalk, intersection, controlled access facilities without approval of a traffic controlled device. Disobedience of traffic signal controls is an infraction that comes with a citation of $300((3k)).

Court Appearance Required: No.


Anti-Loitering Act of 2013:
An act established by the Department of Justice to deter or eliminate gang-activity or the disruption of peace in a residential or commerce area. This act was established in attempt to "get back our neighborhoods" which grants peace officers a right to remove a citizen either by request or in an "loiter free zone".

Loitering
Loitering. The process of remaining still in an area where something may have, may will or is occurring that is holds reasonable grounds, or is in violation of the San Andreas Penal Code of 2013. The penalization for Loitering is an infraction that comes with a citation of $250(2.5k))

Court Appearance Required: No.


Anti-Bullying Act of 2013:
An act established by the Department of Justice that prohibits any verbal, written, or in ASL form that targets a person for but not limited to, finance, economical status, race, gender, appearance, religion. In attempt to fight off harassment of all forms whether it be electronically or in-person, the act is there to protect and safeguard those who have been targeted and punish those who have committed (an) offenses as per described above.

Harassment
(San Andreas Anti-Bully Act of 2013) Any civilian who harms something mentally or psychology shall be punished with jail-time depending on the case and crime factor(s).
Infraction: Committed infraction that occurred once, includes a citation of $500((5k)) and community service.
Felony: Committed infraction that resulted in a death of the victim in question. Manslaughter is tried as adult and/or if offense meets criteria. (time??!?!)

Court Appearance Required: Yes.


EDIT: WILL ADD MORE LATER. I THINK ACTS SHOULD ALSO BE INCORPORATED TO THIS YEARS PC. WILLING TO HELP!

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Re: [Discussion/Questions] San Andreas Penal Code

Post by Rojan » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:31 pm

Dustball. wrote:Harassment
(San Andreas Anti-Bully Act of 2013) Any civilian who harms something mentally or psychology shall be punished with jail-time depending on the case and crime factor(s).
Infraction: Committed infraction that occurred once, includes a citation of $500((5k)) and community service.
Felony: Committed infraction that resulted in a death of the victim in question. Manslaughter is tried as adult and/or if offense meets criteria. (time??!?!)

Court Appearance Required: Yes.[/divbox]

EDIT: WILL ADD MORE LATER. I THINK ACTS SHOULD ALSO BE INCORPORATED TO THIS YEARS PC. WILLING TO HELP!


This very well could have issues with the first amendment. Just throwing that out there.
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Re: [Discussion/Questions] San Andreas Penal Code

Post by kavinsky » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:12 pm

Descent wrote:I get a lot of criticism from cops about this, so i'd like a list of amendments, federal laws, and supreme court decisions which are applicable. Here's a few that I have used in the past to resolve disputes:
- Writ of Habeas Corpus
- Amendments 1-26
- United States Constitution
- U.S.A. Patriot Act
- Entrapment
- Doctor-Patient Confidentiality / Attorney-Client Privilege


I have opened a new discussion which federal laws, USC, constitutional rights etc. are a latter of knowledge—we obviously cannot just force some things out, neither can we apply all of it, because it will get confusing and will harm both, law enforcers and criminals.

- U.S.A. Patriot Act
--- We will have a penal code for that. The PA is confusing is an attempt of defining internationally based terror on a country. What we have in SA mostly is terror from the inside, etc.


- Doctor-Patient Confidentiality / Attorney-Client Privilege

--- Supposedly applied, I'll forward this together with the rest you have stated.

Dustball. wrote:Text


We don't do OOC bracketory for fines/infractions, neither do we say years or months to give the players an opportunity to role-play the sentence as they please.
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