A Decade of LS-RP - State Government & Staff Update (6/12)

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Re: A Decade of LS-RP - State Government & Staff Update (6/12)

Post by dzgapaan » Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:43 pm

Larose wrote:
Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:06 pm

Also wondering this, seeing how the current government is unreachable and no RP is there to be had with them it's sort of awkward still having the hotline around.
Yes? Everytime I try to RP with people as a Licensing Official they start insulting us, shooting at us or just acting like a thug in front of us. Then we go suppress them for their behavior and they start whining in OOC, threating us with Surreal. Have you tried to RP with the government? I mean, when I go to someone for a RP, I just meet e-thugs who are ready to kill all government officials, because they refuse to register Pedicure SPA which they want to operate legally in the center of city. Welcome here! You should see the picture from our side as well.

Anyway, I like this new update, but I think departments are getting very detailed which will cause less RP for each Bureau. I think, this won't improve activity of government, but decrease it. For example, nowadays Welfare nearly has nothing to do and all they do is housing and shelters. Now you are stealing this from Welfare and creating a new Bureau. Same goes with Taxation and Bureau of Licensing. Whole my IG RP stands around collecting fees most of the time. So you want to remove fee collections from the Bureau of Licensing and basically you take away the whole IG action from us. I mean, we are not here to do forum work, we need some in game RP as well. Maybe I got this wrong?

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Re: A Decade of LS-RP - State Government & Staff Update (6/12)

Post by Mark_Warner » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:54 pm

dzgapaan wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:43 pm
Larose wrote:
Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:06 pm

Also wondering this, seeing how the current government is unreachable and no RP is there to be had with them it's sort of awkward still having the hotline around.
Yes? Everytime I try to RP with people as a Licensing Official they start insulting us, shooting at us or just acting like a thug in front of us. Then we go suppress them for their behavior and they start whining in OOC, threating us with Surreal. Have you tried to RP with the government? I mean, when I go to someone for a RP, I just meet e-thugs who are ready to kill all government officials, because they refuse to register Pedicure SPA which they want to operate legally in the center of city. Welcome here! You should see the picture from our side as well.

Anyway, I like this new update, but I think departments are getting very detailed which will cause less RP for each Bureau. I think, this won't improve activity of government, but decrease it. For example, nowadays Welfare nearly has nothing to do and all they do is housing and shelters. Now you are stealing this from Welfare and creating a new Bureau. Same goes with Taxation and Bureau of Licensing. Whole my IG RP stands around collecting fees most of the time. So you want to remove fee collections from the Bureau of Licensing and basically you take away the whole IG action from us. I mean, we are not here to do forum work, we need some in game RP as well. Maybe I got this wrong?
Actually I disagree.
One awesome thing about this update is the possibility of alot of people in government being wiped/replaced.
The issue is with the current people of government not the government itself as several of us said in previous comments.
For example:
-Richardson both as director of Welfare and Mayor had Welfare as the most active Bureau (Unlike now)
-Dyatlova Had Public Works pretty active, doing alot of RP of pavement streets or similar (Again dead now)
-In my licensing days we did the Los Santos Lottery, which kept city hall full for a full month daily (Licensing now is a small Gang/MC going to gang areas and acting like supermen, ending up PKed)
-Richardson also made CITY taxis active with the "Santos Transit" contract (Entire transporation bureau now are either paycheck farmers or factionized roadtrain abuser truckers.)
-Also licensing was operating flawlessly under both Bravura and Birch, people only started having problems with licensing recently due to poor management.

In my opinion again and again, the whole "static" superman government that you can't fire ruined city. Hopefully with state taking over they'll be able to monitor the situation and kick poor RPers, paycheck farmers and what's left of what's making city shitty, out.

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Re: A Decade of LS-RP - State Government & Staff Update (6/12)

Post by dzgapaan » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:31 pm

You are speaking about different subject and I am speaking about another thing now. However, generally you get the same treatment from the GOV as you treat them. Does not matter it's a gang area or Don Corleone's business. When you try to operate a legal business , it's a common sense that you have to register it and I am sure that in real life no one PKs licensing officials for asking business owners to register their businesses, if not ass licking. I've been killed for asking a business owner to register his pedicure spa and I am serious about it. The business was next to City Hall. Then I had another situation where someone PK'd me, because he saw me at Club Boulevard when we took their business down because of not being registered ((However, high ranks said that it was not their order and said that an associate took a decision on his own)). Anyway, I am not sure about other departments of GOV as I've never been in them, but I can speak about licensing and I can tell you that it's nearly impossible to RP with current business owners. All they do is shooting or insulting or threatening. They think that they are above the government and when we screw them for this attitude they whine about it.

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Re: A Decade of LS-RP - State Government & Staff Update (6/12)

Post by Ms.Licther » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:45 pm

My interpretation from the previous posts in this thread is that the main issues in CITY are results of both management and leadership. I can understand that blaming management and leadership is an easy thing to do. Management in CITY have very important tasks such as responsibility for the functioning of their respective bureaus, recruitment, maintaining colleague well-being, disciplinary affairs and communication processes. Leadership in CITY also have important tasks, with the most significant supporting all faction members and maintaining stability and continiuty of the organization. That is no easy task to do, especially on a role-play server where people are communicating and acting from behind a screen, and some are more and less mature than others.

With that being said; I feel it is too easy and quick-thought to blame either CITY management or leadership alone for things not working. I have been in the organization for years now and I have seen many different people hold roles with authority. Some handle it excellent, some handle it satisfactory and some need much support with leading. It is no secret that leadership in CITY has dramatically changed during the years due to elections of new Mayors. Unfortunately some people think that being elected Mayor automatically means being a fantastic leader. That is not always the case and I have not observered a very strong correlation between these two variables.

CITY is one organization. Every member of CITY have an important role to fill and motivation comes from within, not from above. It's seldom I see people praising CITY management or leadership for something good, but criticism on the other hand is very often blamed on management and leadership rather than CITY itself. Leaders or managers in CITY do not run CITY by themselves. It's also very annoying to see people write "That Mayor was so good because of he or she did that and that" or "That Mayor was terrible because he or she did not do that or that". The function of the organization is a result of every member's contribution, commitment, maturity and interest, not a single individual or group.

A Mayor alone cannot do a single thing in CITY, but with support from the organizations members; then we may be talking. From my experience, this part is what too many Mayors and outside-critics have totally neglected over years in CITY.
Last edited by Ms.Licther on Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: A Decade of LS-RP - State Government & Staff Update (6/12)

Post by Larose » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:47 pm

First of all, my statement was meant for contacting the government in the first place not a bureau. Sometimes I spend days trying to contact them with nobody there to pick up the hotline. Then secondly, finding a government employee and to RP with them to conduct a piece of business as a civilized being, is nearly impossible. I get your POV, but I was not directing it towards divisions, I was directing it towards the government as a whole. They are simply not reachable for general duties, such as answering questions, holding a press meeting about city changes even, but instead have to announce things over the government channel which I think is honestly limiting RP, I would like to see more presses regarding news about governmental changes such as new businesses, city works, you name it.

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Re: A Decade of LS-RP - State Government & Staff Update (6/12)

Post by Mecovy » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:51 pm

Mark_Warner wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:54 pm
dzgapaan wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:43 pm
Larose wrote:
Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:06 pm

Also wondering this, seeing how the current government is unreachable and no RP is there to be had with them it's sort of awkward still having the hotline around.
Yes? Everytime I try to RP with people as a Licensing Official they start insulting us, shooting at us or just acting like a thug in front of us. Then we go suppress them for their behavior and they start whining in OOC, threating us with Surreal. Have you tried to RP with the government? I mean, when I go to someone for a RP, I just meet e-thugs who are ready to kill all government officials, because they refuse to register Pedicure SPA which they want to operate legally in the center of city. Welcome here! You should see the picture from our side as well.

Anyway, I like this new update, but I think departments are getting very detailed which will cause less RP for each Bureau. I think, this won't improve activity of government, but decrease it. For example, nowadays Welfare nearly has nothing to do and all they do is housing and shelters. Now you are stealing this from Welfare and creating a new Bureau. Same goes with Taxation and Bureau of Licensing. Whole my IG RP stands around collecting fees most of the time. So you want to remove fee collections from the Bureau of Licensing and basically you take away the whole IG action from us. I mean, we are not here to do forum work, we need some in game RP as well. Maybe I got this wrong?
Actually I disagree.
One awesome thing about this update is the possibility of alot of people in government being wiped/replaced.
The issue is with the current people of government not the government itself as several of us said in previous comments.
For example:
-Richardson both as director of Welfare and Mayor had Welfare as the most active Bureau (Unlike now)
-Dyatlova Had Public Works pretty active, doing alot of RP of pavement streets or similar (Again dead now)
-In my licensing days we did the Los Santos Lottery, which kept city hall full for a full month daily (Licensing now is a small Gang/MC going to gang areas and acting like supermen, ending up PKed)
-Richardson also made CITY taxis active with the "Santos Transit" contract (Entire transporation bureau now are either paycheck farmers or factionized roadtrain abuser truckers.)
-Also licensing was operating flawlessly under both Bravura and Birch, people only started having problems with licensing recently due to poor management.

In my opinion again and again, the whole "static" superman government that you can't fire ruined city. Hopefully with state taking over they'll be able to monitor the situation and kick poor RPers, paycheck farmers and what's left of what's making city shitty, out.
Static can be fired, but I choose not too because they've not done anything wrong.

Welfare, its getting reshaped with the departure of Jack and Alex. Its active and we're working with FD to regrow it.

PW and DOT are yet again, active under Nathan, Ammouri and Rajesh.

Licensing isn't broken, just because you got fined I don't see there being an actual issue.

Leadership was inactive, that's why I took over and now the faction is doing better than ever. I personally hope STATE doesn't happen, because replacing the leadership with people who are not in the faction means they're going to be out of touch, things are being done a certain way and its helping the faction grow. Hell when I took over the faction had 35 inactive people, we're at 50 active people now. Nothings broken.

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Re: A Decade of LS-RP - State Government & Staff Update (6/12)

Post by mattmocz » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:52 pm

dzgapaan wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:43 pm

Yes? Everytime I try to RP with people as a Licensing Official they start insulting us, shooting at us or just acting like a thug in front of us. Then we go suppress them for their behavior and they start whining in OOC, threating us with Surreal. Have you tried to RP with the government? I mean, when I go to someone for a RP, I just meet e-thugs who are ready to kill all government officials, because they refuse to register Pedicure SPA which they want to operate legally in the center of city. Welcome here! You should see the picture from our side as well.
Sure, this part is very true. When I was formerly an Executive Director in CITY I had encountered those who would shoot licensing officials for giving them a simple fine. We have plans to fix things like this and the overall problems that CITY has currently with the implementation of the new State Government.

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Re: A Decade of LS-RP - State Government & Staff Update (6/12)

Post by Jörgen » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:55 pm


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Re: A Decade of LS-RP - State Government & Staff Update (6/12)

Post by dzgapaan » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:56 pm

Larose wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:47 pm
First of all, my statement was meant for contacting the government in the first place not a bureau. Sometimes I spend days trying to contact them with nobody there to pick up the hotline. Then secondly, finding a government employee and to RP with them to conduct a piece of business as a civilized being, is nearly impossible. I get your POV, but I was not directing it towards divisions, I was directing it towards the government as a whole. They are simply not reachable for general duties, such as answering questions, holding a press meeting about city changes even, but instead have to announce things over the government channel which I think is honestly limiting RP, I would like to see more presses regarding news about governmental changes such as new businesses, city works, you name it.
Yes, I agree with you. Government lacks the activity! But hey, it's a faction with small action in it, most of the RP here is around forum work and small in game dialogues that are followed with paper works again. I spend like 20-30 minutes on a single business to register it on forums. That's why we lack activity, because some people don't like being in such factions and we basically lack the activity. It's not a new problem. Government lacked the activity since the creating of it. People prefer to RP criminals, LEA's or even FD, because there are more action in them. Unfortunately, there are few players who prefer calm and serious RP.
Last edited by dzgapaan on Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A Decade of LS-RP - State Government & Staff Update (6/12)

Post by Mecovy » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:57 pm

Jörgen wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:55 pm
Very unrelated video I see.

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Re: A Decade of LS-RP - State Government & Staff Update (6/12)

Post by Bloodseeker » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:00 pm

Ms.Licther wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:45 pm
My interpretation from the previous posts in this thread is that the main issues in CITY are results of both management and leadership. I can understand that blaming management and leadership is an easy thing to do. Management in CITY have very important tasks such as responsibility for the functioning of their respective bureaus, recruitment, maintaining colleague well-being, disciplinary affairs and communication processes. Leadership in CITY also have important tasks, with the most significant supporting all faction members and maintaining stability and continiuty of the organization. That is no easy task to do, especially on a role-play server where people are communicating and acting from behind a screen, and some are more and less mature than others.

With that being said; I feel it is too easy and quick-thought to blame either CITY management or leadership alone for things not working. I have been in the organization for years now and I have seen many different people hold roles with authority. Some handle it excellent, some handle it satisfactory and some need much support with leading. It is no secret that leadership in CITY has dramatically changed during the years due to elections of new Mayors. Unfortunately some people think that being elected Mayor automatically means being a fantastic leader. That is not always the case and I have not observered a very strong correlation between these two variables.

CITY is one organization. Every member of CITY have an important role to fill and motivation comes from within, not from above. It's seldom I see people praising CITY management or leadership for something good, but criticism on the other hand is very often blamed on management and leadership rather than CITY itself. Leaders or managers in CITY do not run CITY by themselves. It's also very annoying to see people write "That Mayor was so good because of he or she did that and that" or "That Mayor was terrible because he or she did not do that or that". The function of the organization is a result of every member's contribution, commitment, maturity and interest, not a single individual or group.

A Mayor alone cannot do a single thing in CITY, but with support from the organizations members; then we may be talking. From my experience, this part is what too many Mayors and outside-critics have totally neglected over years in CITY.
im sure you have a lot to say about how unfair it is to blame leaders, after logging in only 5 times during your "(deputy)city manager" journey, prior to going inactive like always, same thing for Birch but with about 25 online sessions instead of 5. leave an entire faction without leaders -> it devours itself, there simply isn't anyone else to blame for any reason. this one is on you and because of you along with birch, the faction that you spent 5~ years in is getting eradicated

i hope you feel like you conquered westeros

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Re: A Decade of LS-RP - State Government & Staff Update (6/12)

Post by FishEagle » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:10 pm

Let's not forget that the people who were trying to bring order and improvement to the faction were quickly shelved by the powers that be simply because they wanted to do different things with different people anyhow. Me and Edevane dedicated SO much time and energy into improving and running the show and not even a single thank you was given, especially back in the time of Pitchounette's reign as government management. It's been a conspiracy ever since the Valentina Richardson administration to do away with things regardless of who was in the faction and no sort of provisions have been, and probably won't be, made for those who actually DO care about the faction and care about running it the proper way. The very people that had the potential and were working to turn LSGOV into a well oiled machine have been forgotten about and pushed aside in lieu of britishizing the faction and ruining the realism as well as the RP and development for MANY of LSGOV's supporters, members and patrons.

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Re: A Decade of LS-RP - State Government & Staff Update (6/12)

Post by Mark_Warner » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:20 pm

Mecovy wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:51 pm
.
Static can be fired, but I choose not too because they've not done anything wrong.
Well they are not doing anything, period, not wrong nor right.
Welfare, its getting reshaped with the departure of Jack and Alex. Its active and we're working with FD to regrow it.
Veteran is inactive, social housing is inactive, welfare events are inactive, last thing I heard about those were by Alexandra.
PW and DOT are yet again, active under Nathan, Ammouri and Rajesh.
Last time I saw a CITY taxi driving around was over 7-8 months ago with Santos Transit, right now your taxi drivers/bus drivers are all paycheck farmers, I don't need to be in CITY to see their taxis driving around, which never happens.

Also for the past 6 months or more not once did I witness PW rp, the way it used to be before, the only thing they do is inspect helipads.
Licensing isn't broken, just because you got fined I don't see there being an actual issue.
Your opinion is yours, when you have someone who RPs being a faternity kid and a student, running a state agency senior position as a director of licensing? It's immersion breaking to say the very least.
When your officials use Italian gangster skins and go around to businesses addressing people as "Niggas" or "Fellas" and end up being PKed because of their retarded RP, then yeah, licensing is indeed broken.
Leadership was inactive, that's why I took over and now the faction is doing better than ever. I personally hope STATE doesn't happen, because replacing the leadership with people who are not in the faction means they're going to be out of touch, things are being done a certain way and its helping the faction grow. Hell when I took over the faction had 35 inactive people, we're at 50 active people now. Nothings broken.
When you go to faction menu and find full activity bars it basically means you have too many paycheck farmer, not that they are doing anything related to the faction while they're online.
If they actually RPed something related to government, we would have seen them. (Save for the Licensing MC/Cartel/Mafia wannabes).

The state take over is taking too long tbh, this is getting out of hand and hindering the legal RP, ruining the business scene, against everything Surreal's update about businesses and immersion adviced.

As for now the 100th time, I'll hold my faction report until the state takes over, because probably when they do take over; most trouble causing people in the faction would be hopefully let go off.

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Re: A Decade of LS-RP - State Government & Staff Update (6/12)

Post by dzgapaan » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:43 pm

Mark_Warner wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:20 pm


When your officials use Italian gangster skins and go around to businesses addressing people as "Niggas" or "Fellas" and end up being PKed because of their retarded RP, then yeah, licensing is indeed broken.

So, just because I use "fella", I am a bad role-player and I deserve to get PK'd? And what is Italian-mafia skin? That was funny lol! Skins are OOC and I am using an Italian-American skin, because I RP an Italian-American and ohhh! It's actually a Russian mafia skin. So, I must be a Russian mobster? It's actually a skin with a suit and a fat guy in it. And the reason we fined you was your own fault. It happened fully IC and we had a proof which we even showed you as we all know that you always had problems with all licensing officials, so I specially took all screens with /timestamp and /servertime for you as I was warned about your OOC attitude. You want that a government member treated you nice and spoke with you in a respectful manner? Then show the respect back, tell your guards to let Licensing Officials inside businesses and don't scream at Licensing Officials that they are banned from your business. You have not done this, but I had people insulting me over phone for asking them to register their businesses. Of course, I'll go and screw them up and will even speak with them in a rude manner and won't lick their ass. Yes, some of them may have PK'd me when I tried to screw them up, but what did they win? They could not register their business anymore and they basically locked their business future. Killing a government official who asks you to register a god damn legal business is horribly unrealistic. Anyway. It's all about IC. There are a lot of business owners we forgive some things or let them off with verbal warnings, because they used to show respect in game and we did same in character. Lucas Vitti, Sretko Rakita, Miodrag Krcmarik and Nicholas Serafini can freely confirm it. Even tho they represent most powerful organizations in the Los Santos they have not fucked up against Licensing Officials and we let them to go away with verbal warnings and did not ruin their grand openings. That's how things are done. If you go on threatening and "I am cool here" attitude against Licensing Officials then of course they wont start kissing your hands. We spoke about it in PM's as well.
Last edited by dzgapaan on Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: A Decade of LS-RP - State Government & Staff Update (6/12)

Post by Bloodseeker » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:46 pm

Now that everything is being changed no matter what, I thought I might share some of my knowledge regarding the past X months of Los Santos Government, as a faction, from the OOC scale. This is my perspective and anyone is free to oppose it for whatever reason, just don't try to silence me.


This faction has only one problem, and has had only that little problem since post-creation. S T A B L E L E A D E R S H I P. You lot have Pitchounette & Allegra to thank for denying the server a functional & active government since the beginning of February, by cursing this faction with two inactive & incompetent leaders. Now you're thinking that I'm being offensive, it's just freedom of speech and I'm actually putting out some facts here because I have a spine and I don't really care if this puts my head on the chopping block. At least the good citizens of the glorious realm of Los Santos will know what actually is going on.


At the time, when the city manager update was being introduced, we used to be five candidates at Pitchounette's(and some others too I presume) mercy. (these are the presumed statistics of late January/early February 2017
  • Susan Licther: Vast amount of leadership related experience, previous mayor & previous interim mayor (Vaughn term 2, after the arrest), next to no activity, being kept in the faction since forever because apparently everyone respects her wisdom from 5~ years ago
  • Samuel Birch: No leadership experience except for leading licensing, little to no activity
  • Allegra Nixon: Vast amount of leadership related experience, previous mayor god knows how many times, and the absolute fan favourite. Had not been in the faction since at least 3 years ago at the time! And faction management hated people just being "recruited" to the faction, and when I confronted Pitchounette about this she had no choice but keep Allegra out of this voting.
  • Charlotte Edevane: Acceptable amount of leadership experience in my opinion, I was given the post of City Manager for the first time ever after Summers was banned. I managed to keep the faction together for some time despite not having to do it and I was not a forum faction leader either. Contrary to all the individuals above, I actually wasn't a ghost to my fellow faction members. I also helped Cartier Jason (acting mayor after Richardson's ban) a great deal along with Molniya in terms of keeping the faction together, from Richardson's ban until our unfortunate forced resignations at the hands of Pitchounette. 4~ hour activity.
  • Molniya Dyatlova: No leadership experience except for leading the office of public services(which contains 2 departments). Has always been extremely active(8~hours) and contributive, most active person out of all five.

    To sum up, all four individuals except for me are fairly sane and likable individuals that could be reasoned with, I'd rather not talk more about myself because I would hate to look like I'm promoting my own leadership manifesto.
Out of the remaining four candidates, Susan gets chosen as the City Manager and Birch gets chosen as the Deputy City Manager. And this entire thread is the ultimate result. You(I'm addressing you, Pitchounette & whoever else that had a part to play in this) and you alone are the only reason this faction needed to be rescued by Harriet. You failed the server at choosing capable leaders for the faction (even when there were options). You shouldn't turn the faction upside down as a way of fixing what you did wrong. Players currently in the faction are (most of them at least) against this change. If you're looking for an easy way at destroying what was built up to now, you found it. This is my final plea to the staff team to snap out of it and do what needs to be done instead of what looks like you're doing something productive. All this faction ever needed was active leaders. You have Harriet now. Keep him...

I guess I earned myself a ban with this post :^)

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